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[Music]

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you're in the para cast the gold

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standard of paranormal radio now here's

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Jean Stein so this week Chris O'Brien is

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back from his sabbatical ready and

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raring to go and our special guest is

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the one the only Myka Hanks except those

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substitutes is there Myka Hanks another

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Myka Hanks in the world I'm sure there

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is another one out there someplace but

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fortunately there aren't two of me

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because if there were that would be too

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much trouble for everybody including

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yours truly there are a couple of Chris

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O'Brien's out there I know there are a

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number of Gene Steinberg's and it's a

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big question whether they suffer from

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that or I suffer from that and I know

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one or two are in radio I think one's a

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station manager so maybe you know he can

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send me his paychecks that would soar

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these are they tapas are they

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doppelgangers you've got to be the

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original Jean Steinberg right Stein

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burgers nine unusual name its derivation

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is German gene or you gene is certainly

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not unusual you know we've had some

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famous genes out there we had one for

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example a famous cowboy star Gene Autry

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who is hugely wealthy in fact it's a

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Gene Autry Park about ten minutes from

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here I don't know if his estate manages

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it I don't know why we're talking about

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this I think it's because we just wanted

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to catch up we haven't talked to Myka

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for a long time and there are a number

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of issues have come up in our forums and

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I wanted to acquaint him with one here

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and it may sound to our listeners like

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it's a pitch because we're pitching for

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the after the para cast show which is

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part of the para cast plus it's one of

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the things you get exclusively and last

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week in response to a question from a

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regular episode from Louis Sheehan one

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of our regular listeners we invited Paul

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Campbell to talk about his film from

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what 2005 called best

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evidence top-ten UFO sightings and the

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issue here is very simple looking back

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at those 10 cases and that 10 best were

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not his 10 best it was the people he

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talked to but personally he decided

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looking at those 10 best that maybe some

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of them don't really hold up so well

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after all these years and if you really

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want to know more about that and I'll

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make the pitch now you have to listen to

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after the power cast it's part of the

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power cast plus you go to plus that's

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the power cast come to learn

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subscription information and we keep the

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prices low so you get a commercial free

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version of this show after the power

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cast and other goodies plus dot the

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power cast come okay so we've all read

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this go to our forums and this is the

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main thread for last week's episode

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entitled power cast listener grills gene

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and Randall mostly he was grilling me on

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on an open flame I think no he was a

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pretty good guy Lucian he is however

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someone who we used to be a lawyer so he

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knows how to ask questions so we have a

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comment here from a guy who calls

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himself Greer's meeting planner and he

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lives in Sydney Australia and his first

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two paragraphs kind of begin to tell it

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all and I'll read them for listeners

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after listening to the after the power

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cast episode a thought occurred to me

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that's painful one is there actually

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nothing going on when it comes to UFOs

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when I say nothing going on I mean there

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is no evidence for visitation from

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non-human entities and physically

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intelligently controlled craft why do I

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keep thinking this and he goes on to

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state that a lot of the classic cases

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are not holding up so well so like

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Roswell doesn't holds up so well

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Bentwaters has some question marks

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attached to it he points out that

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everybody has a camera in their pocket

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pretty good cameras I mean if you got

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the top-line Samsung galaxys or the

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iPhones

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especially both have marvelous cameras

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amazing cameras and we're not seeing

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anything and his final comment is are we

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dealing with a psychological human

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condition phenomenon that is rooted in

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misidentification malleable memory the

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need for notoriety charlatanism

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imagination ideology and nothing perhaps

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to do with real alien visitors and after

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that he concludes I want to believe but

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I can't so Micah Hanks you got the

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framework for this discussion do you

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think that the possibility of the

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traditional belief about UFOs doesn't

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hold water any more because the more we

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learn about older cases the less were

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certain they're really compelling well I

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just have to say first of all it's a

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wonderfully framed a series of questions

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I'm appreciative to both of you not only

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to be on but also to be able to address

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that you know Greer's meeting planner

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that's got to be one of the best online

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monikers i've ever come across and he

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gets i wish i wish he would stop with

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his everything that he doesn't like in

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life he blames on liberals and you know

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after you see this for the umpteenth

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time it gets a little old it is a funny

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name the actual avatar has Grier dressed

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up with the makeup of the Joker and that

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crazy Heath Ledger version of the Joker

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and the Batman movies so it's pretty

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funny green hair or white face the

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political baiting I agree with you

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please a smart guy but it drives me it

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drives me nuts he does it just to tick

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people off and and I asked him I am not

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very polite terms earlier to cease and

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desist with that we bend over backwards

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to try to be as fair and balanced

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here as we can and I'm seeing more and

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more people complaining that were

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grouchy old men that are down on

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everything and everybody in ufology and

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and and unfortunately that's not really

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the case well but I thought I bring that

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up well that's a misconception okay

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about being grouchy and down on

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everything here are a few of the

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stigmatization and the stereotypes that

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we've got to kind of remove I do want to

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say first and foremost the avatar is

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funny and I do like

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and I mean no personal disdain to Steven

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Greer in acknowledging that I disagree

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with almost everything Steven Greer does

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but I'm not making a personal attack

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against him should be skeptical and to

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ask hard questions is not to be grouchy

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or to have to use ad hominem to bring

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another person down emotionally or

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otherwise you know at some point good

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skepticism all of a sudden turned into

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but we've also got to be mean to people

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dismissive of people we've got to attack

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their political views their religious

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views and maybe even go after their

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family members to look guys being on the

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show with you in the past I've had the

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same thing happen I've had people listen

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to things I've said about the UFO

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subject or other related material and

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they have to say well you must be a

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conservative you must be a liberal they

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can't quite ever pin me down but I'll

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give you a hint real helpful with middle

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theory calm is my political and news and

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current events podcast the name says it

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all I try not to play this game of

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polarization in politics and really when

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I look at this kind of phenomena - it's

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not that I'm trying to make everybody

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happy I'm trying not to give myself to

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the polarized sort of ideology the

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biases that fall on the extremes if you

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kind of come to the center and I think

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Paul Campbell by the way would certainly

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agree you're gonna find that people who

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have a somewhat centrist outlook on

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things in general are more likely to

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really see I think things for what they

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are because they don't they aren't given

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two biases now when Greer's meeting

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planner says I want to believe but I

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can't you know it reminds me of

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something John keel said years ago

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belief is the enemy and I'm sure the

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reason he said that is because again

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once you give yourself to a bias or a

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predisposed what I like to call a

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prepackaged ideology you know you read

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what somebody else said and you say oh

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well that's what I believe no you're not

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really thinking you're not really

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putting your own intellect behind things

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so you know these are some great

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questions that Greer's meeting planner

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makes here and again ladies and

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gentlemen listening at home this is not

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actually Steven Greer's meeting planner

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again that's just the name used on the

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forums there but with regard to the

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actual topics addressed here I really

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actually agree with most of this but

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there are definitely some caveats so

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we'll go through a few of them in quick

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succession here again what they bring to

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the table here is I mean that they Anne

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done quoting there's no evidence for

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visitation from non-human entities and

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physically intelligently controlled

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aircraft well again this is a problem I

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began to see with UFOs years ago and

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really my cell

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to this although it's not really a

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solution it's more a method of

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approaching UFOs in a way that addresses

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that problem I make a big distinction

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between so-called alien encounters

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abductions all that kind of stuff and

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then the physical craft which are

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studied which we refer to as

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unidentified flying objects and people

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are like well you can't separate those

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two because I mean they are absolutely

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connected you know at the hip I mean

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these there's an umbilical cord that

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connects the UFOs to daylian subject

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well not really think about all the

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nighttime encounters where people

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perceive that they have had a so-called

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UFO abduction but they never described

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seeing a craft think of the multitude

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more of UFO reports where we see a

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object in the sky where were the aliens

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with Gina and Chris you're in the burek

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we also have swag you know we have all

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these exclusive power cast things that

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you can buy we've got like I guess 60 or

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so different items and entails t-shirts

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sleeves for notebook computers iPad

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cases mouse pads the para cast jumbo

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tote bag all sorts of t-shirts and

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jackets and stuff like that for men and

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women we have a para cast aluminum water

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bottle all the stuff you go to store dot

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^ cast comm store dot the power cast com

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what makes special is that the items are

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the best quality of great t-shirts

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fabrics and they have our official logo

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on them that's what makes them special

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multiple sizes and colors we even have

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stuff for children stuff for women's

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stuff for men we have all sorts of sizes

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like small up to X large a lot of good

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stuff that's the swag from the para cast

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you go to steward dot ^ cast comm stop

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by and take a shopping tour hello

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congratulations for what you're losing

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all that weight how do you do it so fast

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ASAP what what's that mean are you ready

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to get as skinny as possible as soon as

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possible as simple as possible and as

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sexy as possible I'm listening and get

273
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with the ASAP program it's real and it

274
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275
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happens how do you feed your children

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how do you feed your grandchildren

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go to Weber the on-call org that Liberty

344
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on-call org we'd like to hear from you

345
00:14:07,949 --> 00:14:04,689
if you have a comment or question about

346
00:14:11,280 --> 00:14:07,959
the para cast send it to news at the

347
00:14:14,129 --> 00:14:11,290
para cast com that's news at the para

348
00:14:16,829 --> 00:14:14,139
cast calm and don't forget to visit our

349
00:14:22,259 --> 00:14:16,839
famous para cast community forums at

350
00:14:24,569 --> 00:14:22,269
forum dot the para cast calm so we're

351
00:14:27,389 --> 00:14:24,579
talking to Micah Hanks of the gray lien

352
00:14:29,730 --> 00:14:27,399
report and he takes says he says kind of

353
00:14:32,280 --> 00:14:29,740
a centrist view of politics trying to

354
00:14:34,110 --> 00:14:32,290
find the good things of both sides that

355
00:14:36,929 --> 00:14:34,120
used to be about politics trying to find

356
00:14:39,210 --> 00:14:36,939
a common ground and compromise but

357
00:14:41,519 --> 00:14:39,220
that's a dirty word far too often that's

358
00:14:43,259 --> 00:14:41,529
not political that's not conservative

359
00:14:44,370 --> 00:14:43,269
that's not liberal it's just we're

360
00:14:46,980 --> 00:14:44,380
trying to be reasonable

361
00:14:50,550 --> 00:14:46,990
alright the point that Micah Hanks was

362
00:14:53,429 --> 00:14:50,560
making there is we have UFO abductions

363
00:14:56,160 --> 00:14:53,439
but we never see a UFO we have lots of

364
00:14:59,579 --> 00:14:56,170
UFO sightings but we don't always very

365
00:15:02,460 --> 00:14:59,589
rarely see entities or beings in and

366
00:15:04,949 --> 00:15:02,470
around them now I don't know if you know

367
00:15:07,139 --> 00:15:04,959
this Micah our old friend Jerome Clark

368
00:15:11,309 --> 00:15:07,149
his feeling is we're dealing with two

369
00:15:14,150 --> 00:15:11,319
separate sets of phenomena here aha that

370
00:15:16,319 --> 00:15:14,160
the abductions is something that's

371
00:15:18,449 --> 00:15:16,329
experienced and may have a cause but

372
00:15:20,819 --> 00:15:18,459
maybe not necessarily a physical UFO and

373
00:15:23,100 --> 00:15:20,829
then we have the UFO mystery they're

374
00:15:26,639 --> 00:15:23,110
separate and they're brought together

375
00:15:28,679 --> 00:15:26,649
maybe because people see what they see

376
00:15:31,439 --> 00:15:28,689
because of their cultural conditioning

377
00:15:33,720 --> 00:15:31,449
they undergo this personal experience

378
00:15:35,970 --> 00:15:33,730
and because they've been fed to believe

379
00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:35,980
it's the Star Trek universe a Star Wars

380
00:15:41,370 --> 00:15:38,410
universe it's communion they see the

381
00:15:43,590 --> 00:15:41,380
grey aliens but as we know and Chris has

382
00:15:45,179 --> 00:15:43,600
pointed this out and you have maybe a

383
00:15:46,020 --> 00:15:45,189
few hundred years ago they wouldn't see

384
00:15:48,770 --> 00:15:46,030
that they'd see

385
00:15:51,360 --> 00:15:48,780
fairies and elves and leprechauns right

386
00:15:52,800 --> 00:15:51,370
most certainly and Jacques Brel a very

387
00:15:54,210 --> 00:15:52,810
eloquently brought that to the table

388
00:15:55,920 --> 00:15:54,220
with his book dimensions there were

389
00:15:57,600 --> 00:15:55,930
other related work to passport - magana

390
00:15:59,340 --> 00:15:57,610
where he talked about these kind of

391
00:16:01,740 --> 00:15:59,350
issues in other words the question might

392
00:16:04,110 --> 00:16:01,750
be are the greys or the aliens of the

393
00:16:05,790 --> 00:16:04,120
modern era an industrial society with

394
00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:05,800
all the technology at our disposal is

395
00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:08,410
that a similar representation or a

396
00:16:12,210 --> 00:16:10,210
corollary to something that in

397
00:16:14,670 --> 00:16:12,220
pre-industrial times or if not indeed

398
00:16:16,620 --> 00:16:14,680
pre-industrial times at least several

399
00:16:17,970 --> 00:16:16,630
decades or centuries ago now we're

400
00:16:20,970 --> 00:16:17,980
looking at something that is again

401
00:16:22,500 --> 00:16:20,980
culturally the same but interpretive ly

402
00:16:24,600 --> 00:16:22,510
different and I think that that's a fair

403
00:16:26,250 --> 00:16:24,610
question that has to be raised and again

404
00:16:27,870 --> 00:16:26,260
you know our paranormal adept from

405
00:16:30,530 --> 00:16:27,880
Australia a Greer's meeting planner

406
00:16:33,210 --> 00:16:30,540
there on the forums dr. Perik asked calm

407
00:16:34,710 --> 00:16:33,220
the question had been is there no

408
00:16:36,630 --> 00:16:34,720
evidence for visitation from non-human

409
00:16:39,300 --> 00:16:36,640
entities and physically intelligently

410
00:16:41,460 --> 00:16:39,310
controlled craft well I just have to say

411
00:16:43,830 --> 00:16:41,470
again that question becomes more

412
00:16:45,300 --> 00:16:43,840
reasonable if you do as Jerry Clark has

413
00:16:46,710 --> 00:16:45,310
done in his on proposing I mean break

414
00:16:49,890 --> 00:16:46,720
those two things apart and don't

415
00:16:52,050 --> 00:16:49,900
insinuate a connection if indeed there's

416
00:16:53,730 --> 00:16:52,060
not good evidence of one and it's very

417
00:16:55,950 --> 00:16:53,740
good and a very reasonably worded quote

418
00:16:57,570 --> 00:16:55,960
the classic cases for best evidence such

419
00:16:58,860 --> 00:16:57,580
as Roswell and Bentwaters are as time

420
00:17:00,750 --> 00:16:58,870
progresses losing more and more their

421
00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:00,760
credibility that's definitely been the

422
00:17:04,140 --> 00:17:02,650
case with Roswell I know we don't say

423
00:17:05,700 --> 00:17:04,150
that word on this podcast anymore

424
00:17:08,130 --> 00:17:05,710
especially after Kevin Randall's last

425
00:17:09,930 --> 00:17:08,140
appearance but again that seems to be

426
00:17:12,600 --> 00:17:09,940
through diligence and through good

427
00:17:13,590 --> 00:17:12,610
research and not just overt skepticism

428
00:17:15,120 --> 00:17:13,600
although there have been a lot of good

429
00:17:17,010 --> 00:17:15,130
skeptics who have put a lot of good work

430
00:17:20,250 --> 00:17:17,020
behind this maybe there is less to

431
00:17:22,410 --> 00:17:20,260
Roswell today as seen versus you know

432
00:17:24,180 --> 00:17:22,420
again in a pre-internet society when

433
00:17:25,650 --> 00:17:24,190
there was groundwork that had to be done

434
00:17:27,240 --> 00:17:25,660
you know poring through archives and

435
00:17:28,740 --> 00:17:27,250
things like that the Internet has

436
00:17:30,420 --> 00:17:28,750
fundamentally changed the way that

437
00:17:31,950 --> 00:17:30,430
research is done Bentwaters we've seen a

438
00:17:34,290 --> 00:17:31,960
little of the same we've seen

439
00:17:36,360 --> 00:17:34,300
unfortunately for certain individuals in

440
00:17:37,620 --> 00:17:36,370
the UFO community the unraveling of

441
00:17:39,930 --> 00:17:37,630
certain narratives and thereby the

442
00:17:41,370 --> 00:17:39,940
author's being castigated for what

443
00:17:43,830 --> 00:17:41,380
they've written about that particular

444
00:17:45,420 --> 00:17:43,840
case does it necessarily mean that there

445
00:17:47,820 --> 00:17:45,430
was nothing that happened at Bentwaters

446
00:17:48,810 --> 00:17:47,830
and doesn't necessarily mean that there

447
00:17:50,430 --> 00:17:48,820
was nothing that happened at Bentwaters

448
00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:50,440
it does mean though that we were having

449
00:17:54,150 --> 00:17:52,090
to cast a critical eye as we should

450
00:17:57,270 --> 00:17:54,160
toward some of these classic UFO cases

451
00:17:58,299 --> 00:17:57,280
the question of camera phones and low

452
00:18:00,639 --> 00:17:58,309
price tech

453
00:18:02,320 --> 00:18:00,649
in relation to UFOs is one that has to

454
00:18:05,739 --> 00:18:02,330
be asked guys there is more technology

455
00:18:07,839 --> 00:18:05,749
on the iPhone 6 or 7 then what sent us

456
00:18:09,459 --> 00:18:07,849
to the moon which is incredible because

457
00:18:11,769 --> 00:18:09,469
people use that device and how

458
00:18:13,419 --> 00:18:11,779
relativity plays into all that GPS

459
00:18:15,159 --> 00:18:13,429
coordinates and satellites and all this

460
00:18:17,529 --> 00:18:15,169
technology that works with making

461
00:18:19,959 --> 00:18:17,539
smartphones function and allows us to

462
00:18:21,369 --> 00:18:19,969
connect in a global community let me

463
00:18:22,989 --> 00:18:21,379
just point out something here - there's

464
00:18:26,229 --> 00:18:22,999
an iPhone 8 now uh-huh

465
00:18:28,959 --> 00:18:26,239
and a friend of mine Daniel Aaron dilgar

466
00:18:31,269 --> 00:18:28,969
wrote a piece reviewing it for Apple

467
00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:31,279
insider.com anybody who's interested in

468
00:18:35,320 --> 00:18:32,690
maybe getting the iPhone 8 the newest

469
00:18:38,049 --> 00:18:35,330
model what's in there if the technology

470
00:18:40,839 --> 00:18:38,059
is amazing it's got machine learning

471
00:18:42,339 --> 00:18:40,849
it's got advanced image processing of

472
00:18:44,409 --> 00:18:42,349
the photos you take to make them as

473
00:18:46,989 --> 00:18:44,419
perfect as possible it's dealing with

474
00:18:50,109 --> 00:18:46,999
billions of instructions per second in

475
00:18:52,060 --> 00:18:50,119
this little tiny phone I mean the

476
00:18:53,859 --> 00:18:52,070
amazing power you said more power than

477
00:18:55,749 --> 00:18:53,869
what got us to the moon

478
00:18:57,899 --> 00:18:55,759
this little box by the way they compared

479
00:19:00,430 --> 00:18:57,909
it to a full-size notebook computer and

480
00:19:03,549 --> 00:19:00,440
probably the notebook that you have and

481
00:19:07,419 --> 00:19:03,559
the computer that Chris has it's almost

482
00:19:12,310 --> 00:19:07,429
or more powerful I remember back in the

483
00:19:18,700 --> 00:19:12,320
mid 90s having a adel 386 and lusting

484
00:19:22,839 --> 00:19:18,710
after a 486 when you think about it 486

485
00:19:24,369 --> 00:19:22,849
Meg's is like there's nothing yeah and

486
00:19:25,629 --> 00:19:24,379
that you put that on the on the scale

487
00:19:27,459 --> 00:19:25,639
that we're dealing with today and again

488
00:19:29,349 --> 00:19:27,469
gene what you and Chris what you just

489
00:19:30,849 --> 00:19:29,359
said it's one more reason I love being

490
00:19:32,379 --> 00:19:30,859
on this show with you guys because again

491
00:19:34,389 --> 00:19:32,389
putting things in that cultural

492
00:19:36,879 --> 00:19:34,399
perspective and also that technological

493
00:19:38,829 --> 00:19:36,889
perspective which by the way funny

494
00:19:40,599 --> 00:19:38,839
anecdote people who believe that the

495
00:19:42,700 --> 00:19:40,609
earth is flat yeah they actually exist

496
00:19:44,109 --> 00:19:42,710
they carry around these smartphones and

497
00:19:45,519 --> 00:19:44,119
these devices with this incredible

498
00:19:46,869 --> 00:19:45,529
technology and they use that to

499
00:19:47,589 --> 00:19:46,879
communicate with other fellow

500
00:19:49,539 --> 00:19:47,599
flat-earthers

501
00:19:51,159 --> 00:19:49,549
think about that yeah but but Greer's

502
00:19:52,739 --> 00:19:51,169
meeting planner here again raises a

503
00:19:54,669 --> 00:19:52,749
great point with that kind of technology

504
00:19:56,169 --> 00:19:54,679
capable of being carried right in your

505
00:19:57,639 --> 00:19:56,179
pocket this is why I've said in the past

506
00:19:59,320 --> 00:19:57,649
I stopped calling them phones the

507
00:20:01,329 --> 00:19:59,330
portable multifunction device that's

508
00:20:03,609 --> 00:20:01,339
easily accessible and can be carried in

509
00:20:06,489 --> 00:20:03,619
anyone's pocket that should help us

510
00:20:07,539 --> 00:20:06,499
prove the kinds of paranormal phenomena

511
00:20:09,279 --> 00:20:07,549
for which there was only anecdotal

512
00:20:10,470 --> 00:20:09,289
evidence in the past and yet we still

513
00:20:12,690 --> 00:20:10,480
only

514
00:20:14,730 --> 00:20:12,700
the witness testimony very seldom do we

515
00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:14,740
have good photographs of said phenomena

516
00:20:18,120 --> 00:20:16,810
which many would argue should be proven

517
00:20:19,800 --> 00:20:18,130
by now now we could go down the rabbit

518
00:20:21,630 --> 00:20:19,810
hole and say we'll try photographing the

519
00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:21,640
plane at night with an iPhone and no

520
00:20:25,560 --> 00:20:23,410
matter how incredible that technology is

521
00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:25,570
that cameras not gonna do good distance

522
00:20:29,820 --> 00:20:28,090
photography at night then fuss make it

523
00:20:31,650 --> 00:20:29,830
any easier really to photograph a UFO

524
00:20:34,890 --> 00:20:31,660
sure those arguments could still be made

525
00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:34,900
the number of really decent UFO photos

526
00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:37,210
can be counted on the fingers of your

527
00:20:42,030 --> 00:20:39,610
hands yeah that many over the years

528
00:20:44,450 --> 00:20:42,040
because a light in the sky is a light in

529
00:20:46,470 --> 00:20:44,460
the sky it's a daytime sighting

530
00:20:48,540 --> 00:20:46,480
photographic evidence that's the most

531
00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:48,550
compelling ray Stanford's collection of

532
00:20:53,790 --> 00:20:51,610
UFO photos for instance quite a number

533
00:20:57,480 --> 00:20:53,800
of which I'd never seen before there are

534
00:21:00,420 --> 00:20:57,490
some that are justified description

535
00:21:02,490 --> 00:21:00,430
really up close to the camera there's no

536
00:21:05,340 --> 00:21:02,500
apparent you no rhyme or reason of how

537
00:21:07,410 --> 00:21:05,350
it could have been hoaxed and you know

538
00:21:09,540 --> 00:21:07,420
we are seeing some I I have seen I think

539
00:21:12,780 --> 00:21:09,550
an uptick in fairly decent cellphone

540
00:21:15,090 --> 00:21:12,790
footage and photographs but you have to

541
00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:15,100
kind of sift it away from all the

542
00:21:19,290 --> 00:21:17,290
obvious CGI hoaxes that are out there

543
00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:19,300
these little balls of white light that

544
00:21:25,260 --> 00:21:22,170
that are so simple to do in any

545
00:21:27,180 --> 00:21:25,270
rudimentary After Effects that type

546
00:21:31,290 --> 00:21:27,190
program it's getting kind of ridiculous

547
00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:31,300
really how many of these types of white

548
00:21:36,990 --> 00:21:34,810
white glowing ball or hoaxes are out

549
00:21:38,730 --> 00:21:37,000
there so you have to kind of you know

550
00:21:40,590 --> 00:21:38,740
separate the wheat from the chaff I

551
00:21:42,750 --> 00:21:40,600
think a little bit there but so we are

552
00:21:44,970 --> 00:21:42,760
seeing I I do think we are seeing an

553
00:21:46,890 --> 00:21:44,980
uptick in photographic evidence it's

554
00:21:48,660 --> 00:21:46,900
just you know like I said it's just

555
00:21:51,510 --> 00:21:48,670
difficult to separate it out from from

556
00:21:52,530 --> 00:21:51,520
the obvious hoaxes yeah it certainly is

557
00:21:54,990 --> 00:21:52,540
and you know another point that one

558
00:21:56,790 --> 00:21:55,000
might make here is that concomitant with

559
00:21:59,940 --> 00:21:56,800
the advancements that might enable

560
00:22:02,460 --> 00:21:59,950
better collection of data about the

561
00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:02,470
so-called UFO phenomena because I go

562
00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:04,210
back and forth to at times I mean is

563
00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:05,530
this really what we've long thought it

564
00:22:08,670 --> 00:22:07,210
is I definitely think that there's some

565
00:22:09,930 --> 00:22:08,680
physical craft and we're gonna talk

566
00:22:11,970 --> 00:22:09,940
about those here in a bit I've actually

567
00:22:14,310 --> 00:22:11,980
put some notes together that I think are

568
00:22:16,410 --> 00:22:14,320
very easily quantifiable as the physical

569
00:22:18,300 --> 00:22:16,420
craft that you know people even like my

570
00:22:20,220 --> 00:22:18,310
good friend and colleague Paul Kimball

571
00:22:22,080 --> 00:22:20,230
are fairly dismissive of but I totally

572
00:22:22,330 --> 00:22:22,090
understand why they're dismissive well

573
00:22:24,100 --> 00:22:22,340
come

574
00:22:26,140 --> 00:22:24,110
to that moment but again one might make

575
00:22:28,299 --> 00:22:26,150
the argument for the time being that as

576
00:22:30,039 --> 00:22:28,309
much technology as we have at our

577
00:22:31,570 --> 00:22:30,049
disposal that is helpful that same

578
00:22:34,090 --> 00:22:31,580
technology can be used like you said

579
00:22:36,460 --> 00:22:34,100
Chris to hoax and thereby it actually

580
00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:36,470
perplexes the issue even more it makes

581
00:22:39,310 --> 00:22:37,490
things more difficult

582
00:22:49,990 --> 00:22:39,320
forgot Myka Hanks and Gina and Chris

583
00:22:52,289 --> 00:22:50,000
you're in the para cast thank you for

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691
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hey this is Marie G Jones the author of

692
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this book is from the future and you are

693
00:27:24,090 --> 00:27:12,910
listening to the podcast the gold

694
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standard of paranormal radio we never

695
00:27:28,230 --> 00:27:25,540
want to interrupt somebody when they

696
00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:28,240
just roll it anyway we have Micah Hanks

697
00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:30,250
joining us with Gina and Chris go ahead

698
00:27:35,370 --> 00:27:33,010
Micah absolutely well again just to

699
00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:35,380
reiterate that final point you know the

700
00:27:38,820 --> 00:27:37,210
technology that is moving us forward and

701
00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:38,830
may eventually help us quantify a

702
00:27:43,140 --> 00:27:41,290
certain unexplained phenomena similar

703
00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:43,150
technology and advancements in the

704
00:27:46,830 --> 00:27:45,250
modern era are also making it more easy

705
00:27:49,350 --> 00:27:46,840
for hoaxers to produce information

706
00:27:50,580 --> 00:27:49,360
that's more difficult to discern and so

707
00:27:53,610 --> 00:27:50,590
you kind of get to a point guys like

708
00:27:55,350 --> 00:27:53,620
David Marlar say a UFO photograph no

709
00:27:57,240 --> 00:27:55,360
matter how good it looks is of no use to

710
00:27:58,860 --> 00:27:57,250
us because again that's just a

711
00:28:00,630 --> 00:27:58,870
photograph and there are any number of

712
00:28:02,730 --> 00:28:00,640
hoaxes that can be created we need good

713
00:28:05,250 --> 00:28:02,740
physical proof that would satisfy the

714
00:28:06,830 --> 00:28:05,260
physicists the chemists and that's why

715
00:28:09,060 --> 00:28:06,840
the for instance the San Luis Valley

716
00:28:12,900 --> 00:28:09,070
camera project is going to be very

717
00:28:15,120 --> 00:28:12,910
reliant on other forms of monitoring

718
00:28:18,660 --> 00:28:15,130
equipment such as magnetometers gravity

719
00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:18,670
meters blaze gratings on analog

720
00:28:22,919 --> 00:28:20,770
telescopes for instance too you separate

721
00:28:25,530 --> 00:28:22,929
light into its spectra into its various

722
00:28:29,010 --> 00:28:25,540
constituent components that plus

723
00:28:31,049 --> 00:28:29,020
magnetometer readings radar returns you

724
00:28:33,540 --> 00:28:31,059
know gravitational field fluctuations

725
00:28:35,850 --> 00:28:33,550
that sort of thing this is the kind of

726
00:28:37,590 --> 00:28:35,860
data that really impresses scientists

727
00:28:40,049 --> 00:28:37,600
and it's the kind of data that gets them

728
00:28:44,540 --> 00:28:40,059
excited and would possibly lend itself

729
00:28:49,169 --> 00:28:44,550
to being reviewed at least privately by

730
00:28:51,570 --> 00:28:49,179
accredited scientific experts so I think

731
00:28:54,870 --> 00:28:51,580
that is one of the avenues that really

732
00:28:57,780 --> 00:28:54,880
need to be further explored and expanded

733
00:29:00,810 --> 00:28:57,790
upon as additional types of monitoring

734
00:29:02,580 --> 00:29:00,820
of hot spot areas and of so-called

735
00:29:05,610 --> 00:29:02,590
sighting events so you know once we

736
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:05,620
start to establish that kind of of data

737
00:29:12,270 --> 00:29:08,410
collection and we start to you know

738
00:29:14,460 --> 00:29:12,280
start to create a database of of actual

739
00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:14,470
you know facts and figures

740
00:29:19,950 --> 00:29:16,570
measures and numbers measurements and

741
00:29:23,639 --> 00:29:19,960
numbers then we might be able to start

742
00:29:25,980 --> 00:29:23,649
to make some preliminary kind of come to

743
00:29:28,950 --> 00:29:25,990
some sort of preliminary answers and

744
00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:28,960
create at least better quality questions

745
00:29:32,759 --> 00:29:30,850
asked I think well you know in the past

746
00:29:35,970 --> 00:29:32,769
weren't there UFO researchers that did

747
00:29:38,009 --> 00:29:35,980
that valet described a similar apparatus

748
00:29:39,419 --> 00:29:38,019
or system in one of his books under a

749
00:29:41,759 --> 00:29:39,429
Stanford has done this kind of thing

750
00:29:44,310 --> 00:29:41,769
raised the only one and of course has

751
00:29:47,009 --> 00:29:44,320
Delon in Norway is the other effort that

752
00:29:49,980 --> 00:29:47,019
has attempted to do a multi-instrumental

753
00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:49,990
raised project starlight back in the 70s

754
00:29:52,619 --> 00:29:51,250
was really the only one and he's the

755
00:29:56,249 --> 00:29:52,629
only one to my knowledge it's actually

756
00:29:59,899 --> 00:29:56,259
gotten not only optical data photographs

757
00:30:03,330 --> 00:29:59,909
in film but also acoustic data

758
00:30:05,129 --> 00:30:03,340
gravitational and magnetic data all in a

759
00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:05,139
single sighting event he's the only one

760
00:30:08,129 --> 00:30:06,250
that's ever been able to pull that off

761
00:30:10,529 --> 00:30:08,139
to my knowledge and I'd love to be able

762
00:30:13,019 --> 00:30:10,539
to you know to take the that particular

763
00:30:16,169 --> 00:30:13,029
ball and keep running down the field

764
00:30:19,409 --> 00:30:16,179
with it and also we've come up with a

765
00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:19,419
way to shoot out an active radar signal

766
00:30:24,450 --> 00:30:21,250
that would be good up to about forty

767
00:30:26,940 --> 00:30:24,460
miles and with that kind of combination

768
00:30:29,190 --> 00:30:26,950
of scientific evidence basically yeah

769
00:30:32,220 --> 00:30:29,200
it's gonna be difficult to just explain

770
00:30:33,869 --> 00:30:32,230
it away and and and do a Robert Shafer

771
00:30:35,730 --> 00:30:33,879
or Michael Shermer type you know

772
00:30:37,470 --> 00:30:35,740
dismissal of it it's gonna be very very

773
00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:37,480
difficult to dismiss that kind of data

774
00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:39,610
especially if the evidence chain is is

775
00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:43,570
you know stringently kept pristine and

776
00:30:47,749 --> 00:30:45,490
then of course having a streaming

777
00:30:51,570 --> 00:30:47,759
optical signal going on at the same time

778
00:30:53,879 --> 00:30:51,580
in plenty of witnesses that obviously is

779
00:30:55,409 --> 00:30:53,889
going to help as well you know and again

780
00:30:57,090 --> 00:30:55,419
this kind of equipment I think fit on a

781
00:30:58,259 --> 00:30:57,100
budget of about maybe five thousand

782
00:30:59,669 --> 00:30:58,269
dollars you wouldn't really need that

783
00:31:02,840 --> 00:30:59,679
much but with five thousand bucks you

784
00:31:05,340 --> 00:31:02,850
could at least get decent equipment well

785
00:31:08,820 --> 00:31:05,350
in the graviton gonna be more expensive

786
00:31:09,930 --> 00:31:08,830
than that but and then in the radar you

787
00:31:11,909 --> 00:31:09,940
know if you if you put everything

788
00:31:13,980 --> 00:31:11,919
together you should be able to do a

789
00:31:16,110 --> 00:31:13,990
triangulated array without

790
00:31:17,850 --> 00:31:16,120
forward-looking infra-red which is gonna

791
00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:17,860
double the price but you should be able

792
00:31:23,700 --> 00:31:21,250
to do it for about I don't know I mean

793
00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:23,710
with really top-of-the-line gear you

794
00:31:28,180 --> 00:31:24,970
should be able to do it about seventy

795
00:31:31,210 --> 00:31:28,190
thousand so figure for each for each

796
00:31:34,419 --> 00:31:31,220
you're talking 20,000 for each each of

797
00:31:37,389 --> 00:31:34,429
the three arrays and then money for the

798
00:31:39,460 --> 00:31:37,399
base station and an all-sky camera and

799
00:31:41,289 --> 00:31:39,470
and software and that sort of thing we

800
00:31:43,239 --> 00:31:41,299
do have our software dialed in now

801
00:31:45,700 --> 00:31:43,249
finally and I'm just trying to get my

802
00:31:47,259 --> 00:31:45,710
guide my ISP guy who owns a tower to

803
00:31:49,509 --> 00:31:47,269
climb a damn tower put the camera up

804
00:31:51,249 --> 00:31:49,519
already it's getting cold up there

805
00:31:52,599 --> 00:31:51,259
that's always the problem getting the

806
00:31:53,919 --> 00:31:52,609
guy to climb up there and put the camera

807
00:31:55,119 --> 00:31:53,929
in place but Christmassy that's really

808
00:31:56,769 --> 00:31:55,129
exciting to hear that you know you're

809
00:31:59,080 --> 00:31:56,779
working to try and actually do something

810
00:32:01,389 --> 00:31:59,090
that hey for years somebody should have

811
00:32:03,820 --> 00:32:01,399
already done you know remember back in

812
00:32:05,889 --> 00:32:03,830
the original report on under the knife

813
00:32:07,359 --> 00:32:05,899
I'm flying objects by rippled he was

814
00:32:09,099 --> 00:32:07,369
talking about how there had been a

815
00:32:10,810 --> 00:32:09,109
visual sighting that coincided with the

816
00:32:12,849 --> 00:32:10,820
rate of radar but it was actually a

817
00:32:14,349 --> 00:32:12,859
radiation spike I don't remember the

818
00:32:15,969 --> 00:32:14,359
facility was that white sands there

819
00:32:17,409 --> 00:32:15,979
maybe I can't remember the facility but

820
00:32:18,729 --> 00:32:17,419
he had said that there was data that

821
00:32:20,889 --> 00:32:18,739
actually blue book had looked at in

822
00:32:23,289 --> 00:32:20,899
relation to a visual sighting that

823
00:32:24,849 --> 00:32:23,299
coincided with a radiation spike yeah

824
00:32:27,039 --> 00:32:24,859
that has being monitored at a rat at a

825
00:32:28,989 --> 00:32:27,049
laboratory so there is some anecdotal

826
00:32:30,909 --> 00:32:28,999
evidence that suggests these kind of

827
00:32:33,129 --> 00:32:30,919
things but I would just argue further

828
00:32:34,810 --> 00:32:33,139
that today not only as technology

829
00:32:36,279 --> 00:32:34,820
advanced greatly since nineteen fifty

830
00:32:38,710 --> 00:32:36,289
two or three around the time that book

831
00:32:40,509 --> 00:32:38,720
was written but also the miniaturization

832
00:32:42,580 --> 00:32:40,519
of technology and the accessibility of

833
00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:42,590
technology is made you know it's made

834
00:32:45,310 --> 00:32:44,330
certain things a little more you're

835
00:32:46,509 --> 00:32:45,320
still talking about like you said a

836
00:32:48,279 --> 00:32:46,519
seventy eighty thousand dollar budget

837
00:32:50,169 --> 00:32:48,289
should do it right but still I mean that

838
00:32:51,609 --> 00:32:50,179
that has made things a little more

839
00:32:52,839 --> 00:32:51,619
accessible and you know it's it's time

840
00:32:54,789 --> 00:32:52,849
we start putting these things in action

841
00:32:56,469 --> 00:32:54,799
so good on you well twenty years ago

842
00:32:58,479 --> 00:32:56,479
when I first you know kind of came up

843
00:33:01,180 --> 00:32:58,489
with the with the pie-in-the-sky sort of

844
00:33:02,710 --> 00:33:01,190
what-if scenario of doing this I I did

845
00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:02,720
cost it out and it was around a million

846
00:33:08,589 --> 00:33:05,690
dollars so the prices come down

847
00:33:10,839 --> 00:33:08,599
considerably you know it's it's all in a

848
00:33:12,729 --> 00:33:10,849
matter of when you're trying to get

849
00:33:15,279 --> 00:33:12,739
people to do stuff for nothing as a

850
00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:15,289
favor on their own time it's very

851
00:33:20,049 --> 00:33:17,690
difficult to get things done that's why

852
00:33:22,719 --> 00:33:20,059
I'm wondering whether we should just go

853
00:33:25,690 --> 00:33:22,729
ahead and do a GoFundMe type thing now

854
00:33:27,039 --> 00:33:25,700
so that you hire people to do this stuff

855
00:33:29,919 --> 00:33:27,049
and they can't you know they can't just

856
00:33:33,009 --> 00:33:29,929
say no and or when I get around to it

857
00:33:34,659 --> 00:33:33,019
you know that kind of thing so I'm

858
00:33:36,249 --> 00:33:34,669
touring with the idea of actually going

859
00:33:37,690 --> 00:33:36,259
ahead and doing a complete funding thing

860
00:33:40,450 --> 00:33:37,700
right now we've got all the business

861
00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:40,460
plans and you know they've everything's

862
00:33:44,350 --> 00:33:41,690
been cost you know

863
00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:44,360
analyzed and costed out we've already

864
00:33:48,540 --> 00:33:46,610
spent thousands on the software the

865
00:33:51,940 --> 00:33:48,550
motion tracking and record on motion

866
00:33:53,710 --> 00:33:51,950
software which we have already now

867
00:33:55,570 --> 00:33:53,720
developed you know it would have been

868
00:33:57,880 --> 00:33:55,580
nice to have access to military you know

869
00:33:59,820 --> 00:33:57,890
tracking and targeting technology which

870
00:34:03,190 --> 00:33:59,830
is about basically what we needed but

871
00:34:06,070 --> 00:34:03,200
you know unfortunately I'm I don't have

872
00:34:08,680 --> 00:34:06,080
any contacts in the Pentagon like Mark

873
00:34:11,650 --> 00:34:08,690
Dantonio and Douglas Trumbull evidently

874
00:34:14,230 --> 00:34:11,660
do or you know contacts with NASA

875
00:34:15,460 --> 00:34:14,240
National Labs and stuff so you know

876
00:34:17,740 --> 00:34:15,470
we're having to kind of reinvent the

877
00:34:19,390 --> 00:34:17,750
wheel a little bit but I'm really

878
00:34:22,060 --> 00:34:19,400
excited I mean I'm sticking to it

879
00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:22,070
the team is is you know we've had fits

880
00:34:25,230 --> 00:34:24,530
and starts but this is a future of our

881
00:34:28,630 --> 00:34:25,240
data

882
00:34:30,460 --> 00:34:28,640
ufology all this anecdotal stuff is

883
00:34:32,919 --> 00:34:30,470
great I mean there's wonderful stories

884
00:34:34,930 --> 00:34:32,929
and very believable accounts out there

885
00:34:37,060 --> 00:34:34,940
but when you start looking at hard data

886
00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:37,070
that's been gathered in a scientific

887
00:34:43,750 --> 00:34:40,130
manner you're moving the whole question

888
00:34:47,290 --> 00:34:43,760
in the whole game up to a whole new

889
00:34:50,610 --> 00:34:47,300
level and and it's the kind of

890
00:34:53,470 --> 00:34:50,620
credibility and the kind of scientific I

891
00:34:55,330 --> 00:34:53,480
don't know just legitimacy for lack of a

892
00:34:57,640 --> 00:34:55,340
better word that's I think gonna drive

893
00:34:59,680 --> 00:34:57,650
this whole field forward and that's why

894
00:35:01,390 --> 00:34:59,690
I'm so excited that that race Stanford

895
00:35:04,090 --> 00:35:01,400
is doing the kind of analytical work

896
00:35:07,060 --> 00:35:04,100
he's doing he recently just got out of

897
00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:07,070
the hospital little ray update and made

898
00:35:10,300 --> 00:35:08,810
the announcement that evidently National

899
00:35:13,180 --> 00:35:10,310
Geographic is going to be featuring him

900
00:35:16,270 --> 00:35:13,190
in the November issue of National

901
00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:16,280
Geographic magazine for his the you know

902
00:35:20,980 --> 00:35:18,050
discovery the most important find ever

903
00:35:23,500 --> 00:35:20,990
in paleontology which is discovered on

904
00:35:25,060 --> 00:35:23,510
there on the grounds of a Goddard Space

905
00:35:28,260 --> 00:35:25,070
Flight Center they're gonna do a whole a

906
00:35:31,630 --> 00:35:28,270
whole article in the magazine on him so

907
00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:31,640
kudos to Ray he published a 62 page

908
00:35:36,100 --> 00:35:34,010
paper with Martin Lockley the world's

909
00:35:38,530 --> 00:35:36,110
top dinosaur track expert he co-authored

910
00:35:40,030 --> 00:35:38,540
the paper with and now the the thing is

911
00:35:44,170 --> 00:35:40,040
gonna be on permanent display at Goddard

912
00:35:46,180 --> 00:35:44,180
Wow yeah 60 different tracks including

913
00:35:49,690 --> 00:35:46,190
the first mammal and dinosaur tracks

914
00:35:51,940 --> 00:35:49,700
ever in the same track way and 60

915
00:35:55,030 --> 00:35:51,950
different animals that were all featured

916
00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:55,040
in one single piece of rock so that's

917
00:35:57,700 --> 00:35:55,970
pretty exciting

918
00:35:59,380 --> 00:35:57,710
well silly beret could find something

919
00:36:00,970 --> 00:35:59,390
like I believe me that's what I've

920
00:36:02,500 --> 00:36:00,980
always appreciated about Rey is you know

921
00:36:04,150 --> 00:36:02,510
he's like myself you know I'm someone

922
00:36:05,950 --> 00:36:04,160
who I love the historical sciences

923
00:36:07,690 --> 00:36:05,960
archeology is kind of a passion of mine

924
00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:07,700
Evert of late but really all the

925
00:36:11,410 --> 00:36:10,010
sciences again the fundamental question

926
00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:11,420
is we can sit around we can be skeptical

927
00:36:14,530 --> 00:36:13,130
all day or if we see that there is at

928
00:36:16,030 --> 00:36:14,540
least enough anecdotal evidence that

929
00:36:17,859 --> 00:36:16,040
seems to suggest that there may be other

930
00:36:20,859 --> 00:36:17,869
varieties of phenomena as yet

931
00:36:23,230 --> 00:36:20,869
unrecognized or at least misunderstood

932
00:36:24,670 --> 00:36:23,240
by science let's apply that same science

933
00:36:26,260 --> 00:36:24,680
to those subjects too and Ray's always

934
00:36:28,030 --> 00:36:26,270
tried to do that with UFOs as you're

935
00:36:29,859 --> 00:36:28,040
doing Chris keep please keep me in the

936
00:36:32,050 --> 00:36:29,869
loop about that and your project has you

937
00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:32,060
know um we being of like mind I want to

938
00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:33,170
hear more about this and I'll help any

939
00:36:36,730 --> 00:36:34,130
way I can

940
00:36:39,099 --> 00:36:36,740
we've got more to come with Micah Hanks

941
00:36:49,110 --> 00:36:39,109
and Chris O'Brien and gene Steinberg

942
00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:52,430
[Music]

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1033
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1034
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call 834 no tax that's 803 for no tax or

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this is Robert Hastings author of UFOs

1045
00:41:15,520 --> 00:41:12,860
and nukes and you're listening to the

1046
00:41:23,560 --> 00:41:15,530
podcast the gold standard of paranormal

1047
00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:23,570
radio fascinating discussion here about

1048
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ongoing research the kind of research

1049
00:41:30,160 --> 00:41:27,860
that counts in learning about power and

1050
00:41:33,220 --> 00:41:30,170
rural events just to let you know by the

1051
00:41:35,890 --> 00:41:33,230
way Kevin Randall's next book is gonna

1052
00:41:38,920 --> 00:41:35,900
be about Socorro New Mexico where he's

1053
00:41:41,260 --> 00:41:38,930
reviewing that as a cold case as he has

1054
00:41:43,750 --> 00:41:41,270
with others and be very interesting to

1055
00:41:45,610 --> 00:41:43,760
see what he comes up with it will be and

1056
00:41:48,250 --> 00:41:45,620
one thing to finish up our conversation

1057
00:41:49,750 --> 00:41:48,260
from the last segment one of the things

1058
00:41:51,310 --> 00:41:49,760
that's really important for people to

1059
00:41:53,530 --> 00:41:51,320
understand and may it might be exciting

1060
00:41:56,620 --> 00:41:53,540
to some people we're coming up with a

1061
00:41:57,940 --> 00:41:56,630
three-tiered cost in terms of costs

1062
00:41:59,890 --> 00:41:57,950
we're gonna come up with a with an entry

1063
00:42:00,880 --> 00:41:59,900
level a meet a mid-level and then a

1064
00:42:03,850 --> 00:42:00,890
sky's the limit

1065
00:42:06,340 --> 00:42:03,860
level package so people can take the

1066
00:42:08,650 --> 00:42:06,350
technology and the software that we've

1067
00:42:11,530 --> 00:42:08,660
been developing and take it and put it

1068
00:42:14,460 --> 00:42:11,540
into use in their a particular region so

1069
00:42:16,480 --> 00:42:14,470
it's not going to be only one standalone

1070
00:42:17,800 --> 00:42:16,490
system that we're shooting for I mean

1071
00:42:22,450 --> 00:42:17,810
obviously that's where you have to begin

1072
00:42:26,290 --> 00:42:22,460
show viability and and and stuff but

1073
00:42:29,710 --> 00:42:26,300
once once we show that it's a workable

1074
00:42:31,090 --> 00:42:29,720
scenario we're going to then put

1075
00:42:33,940 --> 00:42:31,100
ourselves in a position to help others

1076
00:42:36,850 --> 00:42:33,950
do the same thing in their regions and

1077
00:42:40,630 --> 00:42:36,860
do a like I said three different levels

1078
00:42:42,730 --> 00:42:40,640
of technology packages so people can go

1079
00:42:44,620 --> 00:42:42,740
ahead and set up triangular arrays and

1080
00:42:46,270 --> 00:42:44,630
in their neck of the woods and become

1081
00:42:48,790 --> 00:42:46,280
part of the part of the solution I

1082
00:42:53,380 --> 00:42:48,800
really do feel again that this is a

1083
00:42:56,500 --> 00:42:53,390
major major superhighway step forward in

1084
00:42:58,390 --> 00:42:56,510
this whole whole realm we may prove that

1085
00:43:00,610 --> 00:42:58,400
the phenomenons there's nothing to it

1086
00:43:02,500 --> 00:43:00,620
who knows until you try and until you

1087
00:43:04,540 --> 00:43:02,510
really make the attempt and put the

1088
00:43:07,480 --> 00:43:04,550
blood sweat and energy into it you're

1089
00:43:10,240 --> 00:43:07,490
not gonna know yeah well you see it just

1090
00:43:12,100 --> 00:43:10,250
died down at the end of the day let's

1091
00:43:13,190 --> 00:43:12,110
leave that discussion here I think just

1092
00:43:14,839 --> 00:43:13,200
important

1093
00:43:17,630 --> 00:43:14,849
for people who are following this

1094
00:43:19,849 --> 00:43:17,640
subject not to assume we have final

1095
00:43:21,319 --> 00:43:19,859
answers for everything the thing that

1096
00:43:25,099 --> 00:43:21,329
bothers me and I'm just gonna get

1097
00:43:28,970 --> 00:43:25,109
quickly into it is that maybe to some

1098
00:43:31,280 --> 00:43:28,980
degree the lack of progress and possible

1099
00:43:34,190 --> 00:43:31,290
recanting of the value of older episodes

1100
00:43:36,620 --> 00:43:34,200
is what makes some people and we know

1101
00:43:40,190 --> 00:43:36,630
about that certain organization some

1102
00:43:42,140 --> 00:43:40,200
people decide to maybe just monetize it

1103
00:43:43,700 --> 00:43:42,150
and speaking of that certain person

1104
00:43:46,220 --> 00:43:43,710
there was an executive director of a

1105
00:43:47,900 --> 00:43:46,230
certain organization I've been in touch

1106
00:43:50,480 --> 00:43:47,910
with him about coming on the power cast

1107
00:43:51,319 --> 00:43:50,490
to answer the questions first well they

1108
00:43:54,319 --> 00:43:51,329
had a move

1109
00:43:57,289 --> 00:43:54,329
the most recent response is well I'm

1110
00:43:59,150 --> 00:43:57,299
really busy and maybe you could take one

1111
00:44:01,280 --> 00:43:59,160
of these other people to come on the

1112
00:44:03,260 --> 00:44:01,290
show but that's not the point he's the

1113
00:44:05,870 --> 00:44:03,270
one we want then I went back and said

1114
00:44:09,770 --> 00:44:05,880
when are you available and I hope he

1115
00:44:11,450 --> 00:44:09,780
responds in the affirmative so after all

1116
00:44:14,059 --> 00:44:11,460
this Micah Hanks what have you been

1117
00:44:15,799 --> 00:44:14,069
working on for the past year oh there's

1118
00:44:18,319 --> 00:44:15,809
always something going on although you

1119
00:44:19,190 --> 00:44:18,329
know again this is important stuff in

1120
00:44:21,500 --> 00:44:19,200
the back of my mind I'm always

1121
00:44:23,299 --> 00:44:21,510
interested in UFOs I appreciate the

1122
00:44:25,849 --> 00:44:23,309
questions raised on the post there at

1123
00:44:27,829 --> 00:44:25,859
the forums let's pair cast calm and of

1124
00:44:30,349 --> 00:44:27,839
course Isis especially appreciate the

1125
00:44:32,270 --> 00:44:30,359
science that Chris and a few others are

1126
00:44:33,380 --> 00:44:32,280
trying to bring you this you know as far

1127
00:44:35,930 --> 00:44:33,390
as what I'm working on

1128
00:44:37,549 --> 00:44:35,940
it always does kind of come back to the

1129
00:44:39,380 --> 00:44:37,559
fact that I'm like what would you call a

1130
00:44:40,910 --> 00:44:39,390
generalist my friend Jason refers to me

1131
00:44:42,200 --> 00:44:40,920
as a generalist I've got a lot of

1132
00:44:44,089 --> 00:44:42,210
different views on things you know one

1133
00:44:46,010 --> 00:44:44,099
thing maybe I'd like to discuss just for

1134
00:44:49,190 --> 00:44:46,020
a moment if we can talk about structured

1135
00:44:51,920 --> 00:44:49,200
craft reports and the idea of of actual

1136
00:44:53,349 --> 00:44:51,930
UFOs because this is kind of a perennial

1137
00:44:56,690 --> 00:44:53,359
favorite subject of mine on an ongoing

1138
00:44:58,730 --> 00:44:56,700
area of interest of mine and two things

1139
00:45:00,260 --> 00:44:58,740
I want to address about that as it

1140
00:45:02,359 --> 00:45:00,270
relates to the kind of research I do is

1141
00:45:04,069 --> 00:45:02,369
some of the points that my colleague

1142
00:45:05,690 --> 00:45:04,079
Paul Kimball raises you know he's been

1143
00:45:08,030 --> 00:45:05,700
on the show recently and and in the

1144
00:45:09,280 --> 00:45:08,040
forums there he had put down that there

1145
00:45:11,599 --> 00:45:09,290
may be a paranormal or supernatural

1146
00:45:13,309 --> 00:45:11,609
component to it all referring to UFOs

1147
00:45:15,140 --> 00:45:13,319
but he says I don't see anything that

1148
00:45:16,640 --> 00:45:15,150
even remotely indicates structured craft

1149
00:45:19,039 --> 00:45:16,650
from an extraterrestrial source now I

1150
00:45:21,710 --> 00:45:19,049
get that I think I agree with that

1151
00:45:23,089 --> 00:45:21,720
almost completely because one of the

1152
00:45:25,400 --> 00:45:23,099
interesting things is that when you look

1153
00:45:26,430 --> 00:45:25,410
back at a lot of these reports from over

1154
00:45:28,440 --> 00:45:26,440
the years

1155
00:45:30,210 --> 00:45:28,450
you begin to see that with the

1156
00:45:32,640 --> 00:45:30,220
structured craft reports and people

1157
00:45:33,809 --> 00:45:32,650
don't miss mistake what Paul's saying he

1158
00:45:36,359 --> 00:45:33,819
says nothing that even remotely

1159
00:45:38,609 --> 00:45:36,369
indicates structured craft from an

1160
00:45:41,250 --> 00:45:38,619
extraterrestrial source some of the best

1161
00:45:42,300 --> 00:45:41,260
we know citing a Canadian case from up

1162
00:45:43,620 --> 00:45:42,310
in his neck of the woods and I was just

1163
00:45:45,930 --> 00:45:43,630
up there with Paul actually just last

1164
00:45:48,510 --> 00:45:45,940
month in Nova Scotia the mission like

1165
00:45:50,790 --> 00:45:48,520
encounter where we Estefan Miculek comes

1166
00:45:53,280 --> 00:45:50,800
up on what appears to be a landed craft

1167
00:45:54,980 --> 00:45:53,290
of extremely anomalous appearance he

1168
00:45:58,050 --> 00:45:54,990
walks up toward it he hears voices

1169
00:45:59,730 --> 00:45:58,060
coming from the craft I mean he goes up

1170
00:46:01,710 --> 00:45:59,740
to it a door is sitting there he calls

1171
00:46:03,030 --> 00:46:01,720
out to whoever may be inside he doesn't

1172
00:46:04,680 --> 00:46:03,040
hear anything they seem to stop talking

1173
00:46:07,470 --> 00:46:04,690
and as he approaches the door it slams

1174
00:46:09,270 --> 00:46:07,480
shut real quick there's a jet of steam

1175
00:46:10,440 --> 00:46:09,280
or something that's projected outward at

1176
00:46:11,210 --> 00:46:10,450
him it burns him and then the thing

1177
00:46:13,890 --> 00:46:11,220
takes off

1178
00:46:15,660 --> 00:46:13,900
there's the Fothergill case from Papua

1179
00:46:17,700 --> 00:46:15,670
New Guinea in which they said that they

1180
00:46:19,440 --> 00:46:17,710
saw beings up on top of this craft that

1181
00:46:21,300 --> 00:46:19,450
waved back at them when they waved at

1182
00:46:23,400 --> 00:46:21,310
these things over two subsequent nights

1183
00:46:25,380 --> 00:46:23,410
and so I mean you know in a lot of these

1184
00:46:28,470 --> 00:46:25,390
cases where you have a pretty decent

1185
00:46:29,819 --> 00:46:28,480
multiple witness UFO case again it's

1186
00:46:32,250 --> 00:46:29,829
frustrating that there aren't now this

1187
00:46:34,470 --> 00:46:32,260
stuff on Miculek case was not but again

1188
00:46:36,150 --> 00:46:34,480
in fothergill's case he had a number of

1189
00:46:37,890 --> 00:46:36,160
people there with him it's frustrating

1190
00:46:39,089 --> 00:46:37,900
that we have multiple witness cases and

1191
00:46:40,620 --> 00:46:39,099
so little in the way of photographic

1192
00:46:43,140 --> 00:46:40,630
evidence but what they described with

1193
00:46:45,660 --> 00:46:43,150
these structured craft reports to me

1194
00:46:48,300 --> 00:46:45,670
doesn't necessarily indicate alien

1195
00:46:49,770 --> 00:46:48,310
beings I mean there's the old anecdote

1196
00:46:51,329 --> 00:46:49,780
you know if it looks like a duck if it

1197
00:46:52,589 --> 00:46:51,339
walks like a duck if it talks like one

1198
00:46:53,760 --> 00:46:52,599
you know it's probably a duck you could

1199
00:46:56,970 --> 00:46:53,770
apply that to a lot of different things

1200
00:46:59,130 --> 00:46:56,980
in terms of analogies but a lot of the

1201
00:47:01,559 --> 00:46:59,140
reports of UFOs that do involve good

1202
00:47:03,809 --> 00:47:01,569
witnesses and good descriptions of

1203
00:47:05,940 --> 00:47:03,819
structured craft also describe entities

1204
00:47:07,559 --> 00:47:05,950
which are ambiguous at best but could

1205
00:47:11,220 --> 00:47:07,569
very easily be interpreted as being

1206
00:47:13,440 --> 00:47:11,230
human very easily in my opinion and so

1207
00:47:14,970 --> 00:47:13,450
when Paul says structured craft from an

1208
00:47:16,770 --> 00:47:14,980
extraterrestrial source it's very

1209
00:47:18,720 --> 00:47:16,780
difficult to try and insinuate that the

1210
00:47:20,670 --> 00:47:18,730
good structured craft cases do involve

1211
00:47:23,579 --> 00:47:20,680
aliens but people in their minds tend to

1212
00:47:25,109 --> 00:47:23,589
kind of project that onto these cases we

1213
00:47:26,430 --> 00:47:25,119
even think about Travis Walton I've met

1214
00:47:29,700 --> 00:47:26,440
Travis I've talked with him numerous

1215
00:47:31,230 --> 00:47:29,710
times but in his case apart from the

1216
00:47:33,750 --> 00:47:31,240
moment when he wakes up on board that

1217
00:47:35,130 --> 00:47:33,760
craft where he describes some beings

1218
00:47:36,870 --> 00:47:35,140
that came into the room and we could

1219
00:47:38,520 --> 00:47:36,880
maybe insinuate a few things there maybe

1220
00:47:39,460 --> 00:47:38,530
he was in shock maybe he was disoriented

1221
00:47:41,020 --> 00:47:39,470
from

1222
00:47:43,450 --> 00:47:41,030
point onward pretty much all he

1223
00:47:45,310 --> 00:47:43,460
describes seeing our people humans that

1224
00:47:46,330 --> 00:47:45,320
he described as resembling the epitome

1225
00:47:47,980 --> 00:47:46,340
of their gender they were very

1226
00:47:49,560 --> 00:47:47,990
attractive looking people in suits but

1227
00:47:51,790 --> 00:47:49,570
he said they look just like you Mirai

1228
00:47:53,500 --> 00:47:51,800
this is a common threat I'll continue to

1229
00:47:55,089 --> 00:47:53,510
see in really good UFO cases from over

1230
00:47:57,880 --> 00:47:55,099
the years and we seem to see fewer of

1231
00:47:59,349 --> 00:47:57,890
those these days than we once did which

1232
00:48:01,660 --> 00:47:59,359
is also a bit telling why are there

1233
00:48:03,280 --> 00:48:01,670
fewer good UFO reports these days that

1234
00:48:04,810 --> 00:48:03,290
involve these structured craft but if we

1235
00:48:06,880 --> 00:48:04,820
really look back at the decent ones from

1236
00:48:10,030 --> 00:48:06,890
over the years these so-called space

1237
00:48:12,670 --> 00:48:10,040
brothers very seldom actually represents

1238
00:48:14,560 --> 00:48:12,680
alien beings as the greys or whatever we

1239
00:48:16,630 --> 00:48:14,570
know culturally kind of recognize them

1240
00:48:18,640 --> 00:48:16,640
as being these days so again I think a

1241
00:48:21,520 --> 00:48:18,650
better case if there's a legitimacy to

1242
00:48:23,200 --> 00:48:21,530
the physical UFOs a better case can be

1243
00:48:24,820 --> 00:48:23,210
made for there being probably a

1244
00:48:26,500 --> 00:48:24,830
terrestrial component to this and I

1245
00:48:28,150 --> 00:48:26,510
think that that idea is probably shared

1246
00:48:30,280 --> 00:48:28,160
by a lot of people including Jerome

1247
00:48:34,150 --> 00:48:30,290
Clark and Kevin Randall and people like

1248
00:48:35,589 --> 00:48:34,160
that one of the best instances or areas

1249
00:48:37,120 --> 00:48:35,599
that involve structured craft where

1250
00:48:38,560 --> 00:48:37,130
there are numerous reports that we hear

1251
00:48:40,480 --> 00:48:38,570
of these days are these big black

1252
00:48:43,120 --> 00:48:40,490
triangles this is something that has

1253
00:48:44,500 --> 00:48:43,130
continued to interest me and I think

1254
00:48:46,210 --> 00:48:44,510
you're probably always will until our

1255
00:48:47,620 --> 00:48:46,220
government or somebody discloses that

1256
00:48:49,359 --> 00:48:47,630
these are ours because I'm pretty sure

1257
00:48:50,950 --> 00:48:49,369
by this point that they are they're

1258
00:48:52,660 --> 00:48:50,960
fascinating and I've actually again this

1259
00:48:53,829 --> 00:48:52,670
is the thing I don't know how we're

1260
00:48:56,950 --> 00:48:53,839
doing in terms of coming up on a break

1261
00:48:58,720 --> 00:48:56,960
here but we have maybe two and a half

1262
00:49:00,400 --> 00:48:58,730
minutes perfect there's just enough time

1263
00:49:02,380 --> 00:49:00,410
to get to a couple of reports I've

1264
00:49:05,320 --> 00:49:02,390
collected a lot of reports about these

1265
00:49:06,579 --> 00:49:05,330
triangle UFOs but to preface that before

1266
00:49:08,470 --> 00:49:06,589
you get into what people say that

1267
00:49:10,270 --> 00:49:08,480
they're seeing what interests me is that

1268
00:49:11,800 --> 00:49:10,280
the Federation of American scientists

1269
00:49:13,480 --> 00:49:11,810
used to have and it may still be

1270
00:49:14,950 --> 00:49:13,490
available online but I recall looking

1271
00:49:16,359 --> 00:49:14,960
for it recently and couldn't find it but

1272
00:49:17,890 --> 00:49:16,369
they had a page up titled mystery

1273
00:49:19,359 --> 00:49:17,900
aircraft I'm gonna give you a

1274
00:49:21,010 --> 00:49:19,369
description of what the Federation of

1275
00:49:22,270 --> 00:49:21,020
American scientists had at their website

1276
00:49:23,680 --> 00:49:22,280
in relation to one of these so-called

1277
00:49:25,839 --> 00:49:23,690
mystery aircraft they said a very

1278
00:49:28,329 --> 00:49:25,849
intriguing aircraft was being reported

1279
00:49:30,430 --> 00:49:28,339
in the late 1980s some observers claim

1280
00:49:32,620 --> 00:49:30,440
to witnessed a vast black flying wing

1281
00:49:35,410 --> 00:49:32,630
estimated at being between 600 and 800

1282
00:49:37,750 --> 00:49:35,420
feet in width passing silently over city

1283
00:49:39,310 --> 00:49:37,760
streets in California the craft moved so

1284
00:49:40,480 --> 00:49:39,320
slowly one observer claimed that he

1285
00:49:42,609 --> 00:49:40,490
could jog along with it

1286
00:49:44,560 --> 00:49:42,619
the aircraft reportedly executed bizarre

1287
00:49:46,510 --> 00:49:44,570
maneuvers in which it stopped rotated in

1288
00:49:48,160 --> 00:49:46,520
place and hovered vertically pointing

1289
00:49:50,380 --> 00:49:48,170
its thin trailing edge toward the ground

1290
00:49:51,849 --> 00:49:50,390
this vehicles unlikely gyrations

1291
00:49:52,870 --> 00:49:51,859
suggested is distinct from other

1292
00:49:54,610 --> 00:49:52,880
sightings and could be

1293
00:49:56,530 --> 00:49:54,620
lighter-than-air craft pushed by slow

1294
00:49:58,930 --> 00:49:56,540
turning propellers now that was pretty

1295
00:50:00,400 --> 00:49:58,940
interesting I mean again we have a group

1296
00:50:01,720 --> 00:50:00,410
like the Federation of American

1297
00:50:02,860 --> 00:50:01,730
scientists that are looking at this and

1298
00:50:04,390 --> 00:50:02,870
saying you know maybe some of these

1299
00:50:05,800 --> 00:50:04,400
reports are actually legitimate but they

1300
00:50:07,900 --> 00:50:05,810
don't look at this and say evidence of

1301
00:50:09,580 --> 00:50:07,910
ET of course they're not gonna do that

1302
00:50:11,500 --> 00:50:09,590
but maybe there is a little something

1303
00:50:13,360 --> 00:50:11,510
more in terms of legitimacy to the idea

1304
00:50:15,670 --> 00:50:13,370
that there is some kind of unidentified

1305
00:50:18,250 --> 00:50:15,680
aircraft operating in our skies and

1306
00:50:20,260 --> 00:50:18,260
there are a plethora of similar reports

1307
00:50:21,970 --> 00:50:20,270
that continue to this day of very

1308
00:50:23,830 --> 00:50:21,980
similar descriptions of some sort of

1309
00:50:25,930 --> 00:50:23,840
very large dark possibly stealth

1310
00:50:27,490 --> 00:50:25,940
aircraft as some in seniority maybe even

1311
00:50:30,250 --> 00:50:27,500
be something akin to a stealth blimp

1312
00:50:32,080 --> 00:50:30,260
well the thing here about all this is

1313
00:50:35,320 --> 00:50:32,090
we're talking here about something

1314
00:50:37,210 --> 00:50:35,330
that's ours it's not paranormal that's

1315
00:50:39,490 --> 00:50:37,220
the most important thing yes certainly

1316
00:50:42,280 --> 00:50:39,500
but I think though to understand the

1317
00:50:43,690 --> 00:50:42,290
paranormal remember what Holmes said he

1318
00:50:44,860 --> 00:50:43,700
says to get to the bottom of it all and

1319
00:50:46,750 --> 00:50:44,870
I'm paraphrasing here you have to rule

1320
00:50:48,340 --> 00:50:46,760
out all that is improbable or impossible

1321
00:50:50,260 --> 00:50:48,350
and that green with which you are left

1322
00:50:52,210 --> 00:50:50,270
at the end no matter how improbable it

1323
00:50:53,500 --> 00:50:52,220
is must be the truth once you've ruled

1324
00:50:54,730 --> 00:50:53,510
out the impossible you know

1325
00:50:56,710 --> 00:50:54,740
understanding things that are not

1326
00:50:58,030 --> 00:50:56,720
paranormal that's the problem to look at

1327
00:51:00,280 --> 00:50:58,040
something that has a conventional

1328
00:51:02,590 --> 00:51:00,290
explanation or an earthly one and say

1329
00:51:03,970 --> 00:51:02,600
well must be aliens before really

1330
00:51:05,380 --> 00:51:03,980
looking into it deeply and trying to

1331
00:51:08,020 --> 00:51:05,390
understand what is at the root of this

1332
00:51:09,610 --> 00:51:08,030
we have to understand the knowns and if

1333
00:51:11,110 --> 00:51:09,620
they're unknown now if we can apply

1334
00:51:13,300 --> 00:51:11,120
logic and science to them and then

1335
00:51:15,040 --> 00:51:13,310
discover what they are well this helps

1336
00:51:16,540 --> 00:51:15,050
us with our toolkit we can say we know

1337
00:51:18,130 --> 00:51:16,550
now what that is so we can rule that out

1338
00:51:19,810 --> 00:51:18,140
at the end of the day whatever we're

1339
00:51:21,760 --> 00:51:19,820
left with may actually be evidence of ET

1340
00:51:25,930 --> 00:51:21,770
for all I know we've got more to come

1341
00:51:28,480 --> 00:51:25,940
what about all those early UFO involve

1342
00:51:39,570 --> 00:51:28,490
cases with Micah Hanks and gene and

1343
00:51:47,300 --> 00:51:43,470
thank you for listening to GCN

1344
00:51:49,770 --> 00:51:47,310
be sure to visit GCN live.com today

1345
00:51:51,510 --> 00:51:49,780
attack of the rock ODEs has been

1346
00:51:53,520 --> 00:51:51,520
well-received by critics and readers

1347
00:51:56,310 --> 00:51:53,530
alike it's a thrill a minute story

1348
00:51:58,650 --> 00:51:56,320
you'll never forget a former US military

1349
00:52:00,900 --> 00:51:58,660
intelligence officer is haunted by

1350
00:52:03,540 --> 00:52:00,910
intense dreams about a beautiful woman

1351
00:52:06,300 --> 00:52:03,550
pleading for his help after a terrible

1352
00:52:08,580 --> 00:52:06,310
battle in outer space but the dreams

1353
00:52:10,410 --> 00:52:08,590
turn out to be true and thrust him into

1354
00:52:13,050 --> 00:52:10,420
a telepathic love affair with a woman

1355
00:52:15,450 --> 00:52:13,060
whose faraway planet is intent on

1356
00:52:18,300 --> 00:52:15,460
destroying the earth and now the

1357
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1361
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1362
00:52:33,359 --> 00:52:30,550
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1363
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1368
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00:52:57,120 --> 00:52:54,460
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1370
00:52:59,160 --> 00:52:57,130
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1371
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1377
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1378
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1379
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that's eight seven seven eight seven

1380
00:53:20,190 --> 00:53:16,960
eight 4203 that's eight seven seven

1381
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00:53:23,790 --> 00:53:22,180
openly threatens the US and launches a

1383
00:53:24,720 --> 00:53:23,800
new missile every other week their

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00:53:26,849 --> 00:53:24,730
warhead of choice

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1387
00:53:32,220 --> 00:53:30,250
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1391
00:53:39,270 --> 00:53:37,660
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1392
00:53:41,010 --> 00:53:39,280
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1393
00:53:43,710 --> 00:53:41,020
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1394
00:53:46,110 --> 00:53:43,720
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1396
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[Applause]

1397
00:54:03,270 --> 00:53:59,340
welcome back to to the para cast the

1398
00:54:07,950 --> 00:54:03,280
gold standard of paranormal radio and

1399
00:54:11,000 --> 00:54:07,960
now here's Jane Steinberg

1400
00:54:13,880 --> 00:54:11,010
[Music]

1401
00:54:17,160 --> 00:54:13,890
yes he's giving it the residence as

1402
00:54:19,080 --> 00:54:17,170
proper of a radio announcer Myka Hanks

1403
00:54:21,810 --> 00:54:19,090
of the grey lien report with Gene and

1404
00:54:24,540 --> 00:54:21,820
Chris so this takes us back when we look

1405
00:54:26,190 --> 00:54:24,550
at the possible conventional answers to

1406
00:54:28,140 --> 00:54:26,200
all the stuff that was happening during

1407
00:54:31,650 --> 00:54:28,150
World War Two and thereafter and the

1408
00:54:34,980 --> 00:54:31,660
ghost rockets and the Foo Fighters in

1409
00:54:37,980 --> 00:54:34,990
the early UFO cases and we wonder how

1410
00:54:41,010 --> 00:54:37,990
much of the stuff that influenced this

1411
00:54:43,050 --> 00:54:41,020
myth and caused us to look to the skies

1412
00:54:45,290 --> 00:54:43,060
and maybe find some real stuff going on

1413
00:54:47,670 --> 00:54:45,300
there was really something that was

1414
00:54:50,010 --> 00:54:47,680
conventional testing the German

1415
00:54:52,350 --> 00:54:50,020
inventions etc etc what do you think

1416
00:54:53,730 --> 00:54:52,360
Myka what most certainly of course you

1417
00:54:55,590 --> 00:54:53,740
mentioned ghost rock is I wrote a book

1418
00:54:56,670 --> 00:54:55,600
that was titled the ghost rockets which

1419
00:54:58,890 --> 00:54:56,680
didn't just look at what was happening

1420
00:55:01,140 --> 00:54:58,900
over Scandinavia there was some also

1421
00:55:03,060 --> 00:55:01,150
some very good points about that subject

1422
00:55:04,500 --> 00:55:03,070
that were raised in other literature

1423
00:55:05,910 --> 00:55:04,510
that came about after my book was

1424
00:55:08,190 --> 00:55:05,920
written and I think I'm trying to think

1425
00:55:10,710 --> 00:55:08,200
the rosetta deception you guys of course

1426
00:55:11,820 --> 00:55:10,720
have you know James carians James Carey

1427
00:55:13,740 --> 00:55:11,830
and has raised some really good points

1428
00:55:15,360 --> 00:55:13,750
about that era and really I think

1429
00:55:17,220 --> 00:55:15,370
rightly insinuates that a lot of that

1430
00:55:19,650 --> 00:55:17,230
probably had to do with misdirection by

1431
00:55:21,510 --> 00:55:19,660
government agencies which kind of comes

1432
00:55:23,610 --> 00:55:21,520
back around to something that Greer's

1433
00:55:25,860 --> 00:55:23,620
meeting planner pointed out he he lists

1434
00:55:27,150 --> 00:55:25,870
misinformation from cases like bennewitz

1435
00:55:30,060 --> 00:55:27,160
and dodi

1436
00:55:32,190 --> 00:55:30,070
make you question any case that involves

1437
00:55:33,960 --> 00:55:32,200
officialdom when he says cases like

1438
00:55:35,490 --> 00:55:33,970
Benowitz and dodi we have to remember

1439
00:55:37,680 --> 00:55:35,500
again that Benowitz I guess was Paul

1440
00:55:40,470 --> 00:55:37,690
bennewitz was the victim or a Richard

1441
00:55:42,270 --> 00:55:40,480
Doty was probably the the problem in

1442
00:55:43,410 --> 00:55:42,280
that case and and Ben which wasn't the

1443
00:55:45,330 --> 00:55:43,420
only person affected by that

1444
00:55:46,830 --> 00:55:45,340
misinformation campaign but you know the

1445
00:55:48,990 --> 00:55:46,840
fundamental point remains that it was a

1446
00:55:51,690 --> 00:55:49,000
good example of misinformation being

1447
00:55:53,580 --> 00:55:51,700
handed to UFO researchers so as to

1448
00:55:55,530 --> 00:55:53,590
obfuscate from perhaps some actual

1449
00:55:57,180 --> 00:55:55,540
reality in that case I think really

1450
00:55:59,250 --> 00:55:57,190
underscores what this a lot of this

1451
00:56:01,410 --> 00:55:59,260
phenomena really is about somebody sees

1452
00:56:03,210 --> 00:56:01,420
something that again in that instance I

1453
00:56:04,590 --> 00:56:03,220
think it was the NSA doing tests out

1454
00:56:07,170 --> 00:56:04,600
there at Kirkland Air Force Base

1455
00:56:08,910 --> 00:56:07,180
bennewitz approaches them he already was

1456
00:56:10,830 --> 00:56:08,920
pretty imaginative in his thing

1457
00:56:12,870 --> 00:56:10,840
and he was someone who was very really

1458
00:56:15,240 --> 00:56:12,880
into the UFO subject rather than being

1459
00:56:16,800 --> 00:56:15,250
told looked back off you shouldn't be

1460
00:56:19,320 --> 00:56:16,810
looking into this they actually kind of

1461
00:56:21,450 --> 00:56:19,330
encouraged his interest but encouraged

1462
00:56:23,360 --> 00:56:21,460
it in a way that is consistent with his

1463
00:56:25,380 --> 00:56:23,370
existing UFO beliefs and Richard Doty

1464
00:56:26,970 --> 00:56:25,390
contributed to that kind of a thing so

1465
00:56:28,080 --> 00:56:26,980
again you might say that that goes all

1466
00:56:29,430 --> 00:56:28,090
the way back to the end of the Second

1467
00:56:31,260 --> 00:56:29,440
World War if we have experimental

1468
00:56:33,300 --> 00:56:31,270
technology in our skies

1469
00:56:35,490 --> 00:56:33,310
perhaps some fairly exotic different

1470
00:56:36,960 --> 00:56:35,500
varieties of aircraft being tested some

1471
00:56:39,330 --> 00:56:36,970
stuff that perhaps for whatever

1472
00:56:41,310 --> 00:56:39,340
strategic importance defense reasons you

1473
00:56:42,990 --> 00:56:41,320
need to know whatever else may still be

1474
00:56:44,190 --> 00:56:43,000
off the books largely yeah and this is

1475
00:56:45,540 --> 00:56:44,200
something again that I remember Robert

1476
00:56:47,520 --> 00:56:45,550
Schaeffer and I talking about a few

1477
00:56:49,380 --> 00:56:47,530
years back he had said in his opinion

1478
00:56:50,820 --> 00:56:49,390
and I want to misquote him by any means

1479
00:56:53,070 --> 00:56:50,830
because you know I get along well with

1480
00:56:54,360 --> 00:56:53,080
Robert but in his opinion he said the

1481
00:56:56,760 --> 00:56:54,370
defect were the case if there were

1482
00:56:58,530 --> 00:56:56,770
information pertaining to experimental

1483
00:56:59,970 --> 00:56:58,540
studies that went back decades we should

1484
00:57:02,790 --> 00:56:59,980
have access to that by now

1485
00:57:04,950 --> 00:57:02,800
I disagree I do not believe that all

1486
00:57:07,740 --> 00:57:04,960
information that has been around for a

1487
00:57:09,510 --> 00:57:07,750
few decades or so is probably publicly

1488
00:57:12,000 --> 00:57:09,520
available we only had an official

1489
00:57:15,660 --> 00:57:12,010
disclosure about area 51 a couple of

1490
00:57:18,270 --> 00:57:15,670
years ago and that was only a tangent to

1491
00:57:20,070 --> 00:57:18,280
the actual subject of area 51 on what's

1492
00:57:21,870 --> 00:57:20,080
going on out there it was mentioned in

1493
00:57:23,130 --> 00:57:21,880
documentation that was disclosed about

1494
00:57:25,590 --> 00:57:23,140
the u2 in the oxcart

1495
00:57:27,300 --> 00:57:25,600
programs and so it wasn't a huge splash

1496
00:57:29,190 --> 00:57:27,310
made but I mean a lot of people a VA

1497
00:57:31,290 --> 00:57:29,200
shin historians UFO researchers they did

1498
00:57:34,170 --> 00:57:31,300
point out hey finally for the first time

1499
00:57:35,940 --> 00:57:34,180
especially you know to say that all this

1500
00:57:38,940 --> 00:57:35,950
stuff should be public it only took 50

1501
00:57:40,560 --> 00:57:38,950
years only took 50 years half a century

1502
00:57:42,390 --> 00:57:40,570
coming back to the discussion with

1503
00:57:43,770 --> 00:57:42,400
Robert Shaffer I understand that you

1504
00:57:46,320 --> 00:57:43,780
know sure that stuff should be publicly

1505
00:57:47,970 --> 00:57:46,330
available but do I think that maybe it's

1506
00:57:50,130 --> 00:57:47,980
a bit naive to assert that it absolutely

1507
00:57:51,720 --> 00:57:50,140
is there are probably reasons why

1508
00:57:52,860 --> 00:57:51,730
certain things are kept off the books

1509
00:57:55,020 --> 00:57:52,870
and that has to do with national

1510
00:57:56,610 --> 00:57:55,030
security if in the interest of national

1511
00:57:58,500 --> 00:57:56,620
security something has not only kept

1512
00:58:01,500 --> 00:57:58,510
secret but certain people are given bad

1513
00:58:03,990 --> 00:58:01,510
information to further help protect that

1514
00:58:05,760 --> 00:58:04,000
secrecy we have situations like Doty and

1515
00:58:07,460 --> 00:58:05,770
so I think that this probably covers a

1516
00:58:09,540 --> 00:58:07,470
lot of what we see in ufology

1517
00:58:11,040 --> 00:58:09,550
unfortunately now you know coming back

1518
00:58:11,310 --> 00:58:11,050
to these large aircraft I'm talking

1519
00:58:13,740 --> 00:58:11,320
about

1520
00:58:15,120 --> 00:58:13,750
I think we've got information sometimes

1521
00:58:16,710 --> 00:58:15,130
that shows up that can be questionable

1522
00:58:18,480 --> 00:58:16,720
like mj-12 and things like that and then

1523
00:58:20,280 --> 00:58:18,490
you do have witness reports what

1524
00:58:22,769 --> 00:58:20,290
interests me is when you have consistent

1525
00:58:24,179 --> 00:58:22,779
descriptions by multiple individual

1526
00:58:26,339 --> 00:58:24,189
not maybe at the same time but over a

1527
00:58:27,989 --> 00:58:26,349
period perhaps that describe a lot of

1528
00:58:29,909 --> 00:58:27,999
the same sorts of characteristics in

1529
00:58:32,489 --> 00:58:29,919
relation to a craft let's go to the

1530
00:58:34,620 --> 00:58:32,499
archives here October 1998 approximately

1531
00:58:36,269 --> 00:58:34,630
1:00 a.m. just about an hour south of me

1532
00:58:37,709 --> 00:58:36,279
in Liberty South Carolina a gentleman by

1533
00:58:39,149 --> 00:58:37,719
the name of Aaron had written to me and

1534
00:58:40,949 --> 00:58:39,159
I'm gonna tell you what he described and

1535
00:58:42,719 --> 00:58:40,959
I quote him as saying at the time I was

1536
00:58:44,399 --> 00:58:42,729
about ten miles from the nearest town so

1537
00:58:46,529 --> 00:58:44,409
light pollution was fairly low as I came

1538
00:58:48,299 --> 00:58:46,539
around to bend in the road my headlights

1539
00:58:50,759 --> 00:58:48,309
malfunctioned causing me to stop the car

1540
00:58:52,169 --> 00:58:50,769
the car had had some electrical problems

1541
00:58:54,359 --> 00:58:52,179
and I do not attribute that to what

1542
00:58:56,189 --> 00:58:54,369
happened next as I opened the door to

1543
00:58:58,049 --> 00:58:56,199
get out of the car I looked up and at

1544
00:59:01,019 --> 00:58:58,059
around a 45-degree angle to my line of

1545
00:59:02,339 --> 00:59:01,029
sight was a black triangular object it

1546
00:59:04,529 --> 00:59:02,349
was to the right side of the road and

1547
00:59:05,819 --> 00:59:04,539
moving slowly to my left he appeared to

1548
00:59:07,649 --> 00:59:05,829
be about the size of a large commercial

1549
00:59:09,509 --> 00:59:07,659
airplane and had three dim red lights

1550
00:59:11,249 --> 00:59:09,519
near each corner the illumination of

1551
00:59:13,289 --> 00:59:11,259
these lights had been just enough that I

1552
00:59:14,519 --> 00:59:13,299
could make out the shape I watched for

1553
00:59:15,839 --> 00:59:14,529
about one to two minutes as it moved

1554
00:59:18,059 --> 00:59:15,849
over the road and then it began to

1555
00:59:19,499 --> 00:59:18,069
accelerate and move out of view now at

1556
00:59:20,459 --> 00:59:19,509
the time I was 17 years old and I

1557
00:59:23,009 --> 00:59:20,469
thought I had witnessed something

1558
00:59:24,569 --> 00:59:23,019
extraterrestrial I was terrified and I

1559
00:59:26,130 --> 00:59:24,579
didn't tell anyone for months and as

1560
00:59:27,630 --> 00:59:26,140
I've grown older I've come to think that

1561
00:59:28,890 --> 00:59:27,640
this may indeed have been very

1562
00:59:30,959 --> 00:59:28,900
terrestrial in origin

1563
00:59:33,120 --> 00:59:30,969
I find the reports of mystery blimps

1564
00:59:34,769 --> 00:59:33,130
fascinating in a wonder if this was

1565
00:59:36,419 --> 00:59:34,779
something similar now that one's pretty

1566
00:59:38,609 --> 00:59:36,429
interesting but again right around the

1567
00:59:41,219 --> 00:59:38,619
same time maybe early to mid-1990s

1568
00:59:42,839 --> 00:59:41,229
we're gonna go to Enron Ohio this is

1569
00:59:45,779 --> 00:59:42,849
where we where we have a report that

1570
00:59:47,759 --> 00:59:45,789
occurs near Dayton Springfield Road on

1571
00:59:49,349 --> 00:59:47,769
the overpass of a railroad track they

1572
00:59:51,149 --> 00:59:49,359
said as the crow flies this is less than

1573
00:59:53,069 --> 00:59:51,159
three miles to the to the large landing

1574
00:59:55,019 --> 00:59:53,079
strip over at the nearest Air Force Base

1575
00:59:57,329 --> 00:59:55,029
he said to the north I saw a very large

1576
00:59:58,589 --> 00:59:57,339
silent low flying black triangle that

1577
01:00:01,109 --> 00:59:58,599
was headed toward Wright Patterson's

1578
01:00:03,059 --> 01:00:01,119
airstrip I grew up in Enron and as a

1579
01:00:05,099 --> 01:00:03,069
child there were b-52s at this airstrip

1580
01:00:07,259 --> 01:00:05,109
where the triangle was headed it looked

1581
01:00:09,239 --> 01:00:07,269
to be twice the size of a b-52 and one

1582
01:00:11,249 --> 01:00:09,249
last odd thing they said it seemed as if

1583
01:00:13,079 --> 01:00:11,259
I were traveling faster than the

1584
01:00:14,789 --> 01:00:13,089
triangle now remember the Federation of

1585
01:00:16,140 --> 01:00:14,799
American scientists report talking about

1586
01:00:18,120 --> 01:00:16,150
people in California saying they could

1587
01:00:19,439 --> 01:00:18,130
jog alongside these things we have

1588
01:00:21,899 --> 01:00:19,449
another one from Jacksonville Florida in

1589
01:00:23,880 --> 01:00:21,909
1999 this witness described an object

1590
01:00:25,769 --> 01:00:23,890
which quote made the same clockwise and

1591
01:00:27,630 --> 01:00:25,779
counterclockwise spins on its axis

1592
01:00:29,969 --> 01:00:27,640
hovered motionless and most strangely

1593
01:00:31,469 --> 01:00:29,979
pivoted vertically with either the nose

1594
01:00:32,939 --> 01:00:31,479
or the tail pointed to the ground until

1595
01:00:34,800 --> 01:00:32,949
it formed a thin nearly imperceptible

1596
01:00:36,540 --> 01:00:34,810
line in the sky

1597
01:00:38,010 --> 01:00:36,550
the relatively close proximity of the

1598
01:00:39,990 --> 01:00:38,020
siding to a Naval Air Station I've

1599
01:00:41,310 --> 01:00:40,000
always suspected that what I saw was one

1600
01:00:43,020 --> 01:00:41,320
of the military's new toys in your

1601
01:00:45,240 --> 01:00:43,030
article talking about something I'd

1602
01:00:47,430 --> 01:00:45,250
written boosts my belief that this is

1603
01:00:48,720 --> 01:00:47,440
the case I'm hoping one day soon that

1604
01:00:50,400 --> 01:00:48,730
the Pentagon will take the wraps off

1605
01:00:52,920 --> 01:00:50,410
these things so I can be vindicated in

1606
01:00:55,770 --> 01:00:52,930
the eyes of my family who do you think

1607
01:00:56,910 --> 01:00:55,780
he's crazy oh you're crazy but see

1608
01:00:59,100 --> 01:00:56,920
that's the thing if only more people

1609
01:01:01,470 --> 01:00:59,110
knew how many people were seeing and

1610
01:01:03,840 --> 01:01:01,480
describing virtually the same craft yeah

1611
01:01:06,960 --> 01:01:03,850
the other cases too I think in in the

1612
01:01:09,360 --> 01:01:06,970
mid 90s in Illinois and Indiana a police

1613
01:01:11,640 --> 01:01:09,370
officer was chasing these things for

1614
01:01:13,950 --> 01:01:11,650
instance those were able to move at

1615
01:01:15,690 --> 01:01:13,960
hypersonic speed don't quite conform to

1616
01:01:17,970 --> 01:01:15,700
the possible stealth part of a whole

1617
01:01:19,920 --> 01:01:17,980
group of people sky watching and we had

1618
01:01:21,900 --> 01:01:19,930
something go over the San Luis Valley in

1619
01:01:25,440 --> 01:01:21,910
the mid 90s that blocked out the Stars

1620
01:01:27,810 --> 01:01:25,450
was huge a gigantic whatever it was we

1621
01:01:29,940 --> 01:01:27,820
couldn't it seemed to be triangular in

1622
01:01:31,380 --> 01:01:29,950
shape I was with a group of people in

1623
01:01:33,900 --> 01:01:31,390
the San Luis Valley in the mid 90s and

1624
01:01:36,270 --> 01:01:33,910
we had a huge object over and block out

1625
01:01:38,370 --> 01:01:36,280
the Stars and we weren't really able to

1626
01:01:43,530 --> 01:01:38,380
determine its exact shape but it did

1627
01:01:47,280 --> 01:01:43,540
appear to be triangular shaped the

1628
01:01:49,200 --> 01:01:47,290
closer it was to us the less stars were

1629
01:01:51,710 --> 01:01:49,210
blocked out and as it went overhead the

1630
01:01:54,570 --> 01:01:51,720
Stars seemed to be blocked out by a

1631
01:01:57,990 --> 01:01:54,580
larger a larger part of the object a

1632
01:01:59,190 --> 01:01:58,000
larger portion of the object so it kind

1633
01:02:01,290 --> 01:01:59,200
of it kind of was triangular but we

1634
01:02:05,100 --> 01:02:01,300
really couldn't couldn't you know stake

1635
01:02:06,870 --> 01:02:05,110
our reputations on it but these things

1636
01:02:11,370 --> 01:02:06,880
are being reported of course the Belgium

1637
01:02:14,700 --> 01:02:11,380
wave too was another classic you know a

1638
01:02:18,390 --> 01:02:14,710
head-scratcher getting back to meeting

1639
01:02:20,100 --> 01:02:18,400
planners point of cases kind of falling

1640
01:02:22,530 --> 01:02:20,110
apart a little bit as the years go by

1641
01:02:25,020 --> 01:02:22,540
another one now I saw an article a

1642
01:02:27,120 --> 01:02:25,030
couple of weeks back about Kecksburg and

1643
01:02:30,000 --> 01:02:27,130
now there's the new revisionist theory

1644
01:02:33,600 --> 01:02:30,010
that it was a reentering Russian

1645
01:02:36,030 --> 01:02:33,610
satellite which I've seen that theory

1646
01:02:37,950 --> 01:02:36,040
bannered about over the years it kind of

1647
01:02:40,920 --> 01:02:37,960
abdun flow but it seems that there's

1648
01:02:42,930 --> 01:02:40,930
some pretty good evidence now that is

1649
01:02:46,770 --> 01:02:42,940
indicating that that's that's a strong

1650
01:02:47,880 --> 01:02:46,780
possibility that the the early sixties

1651
01:02:50,339 --> 01:02:47,890
Kecksburg

1652
01:02:54,299 --> 01:02:50,349
incident in Pennsylvania may have indeed

1653
01:02:55,740 --> 01:02:54,309
been some sort of reentering human you

1654
01:03:00,269 --> 01:02:55,750
know created an engineered and built

1655
01:03:02,099 --> 01:03:00,279
object satellite of some sort but did

1656
01:03:05,849 --> 01:03:02,109
you read that you guys happen to see

1657
01:03:10,109 --> 01:03:05,859
that yes now I gather though that our

1658
01:03:12,839 --> 01:03:10,119
friend Stan Gordon the Pennsylvania UFO

1659
01:03:15,029 --> 01:03:12,849
and paranormal investigator he doesn't

1660
01:03:17,400 --> 01:03:15,039
buy the conventional explanation and

1661
01:03:19,829 --> 01:03:17,410
maybe his reasons are legitimate but it

1662
01:03:21,960 --> 01:03:19,839
also comes to this which is when you run

1663
01:03:24,450 --> 01:03:21,970
into a case where there are questions

1664
01:03:26,609 --> 01:03:24,460
new questions raised some of the people

1665
01:03:30,960 --> 01:03:26,619
who sponsored the original explanation

1666
01:03:33,750 --> 01:03:30,970
or touted it suddenly you know they are

1667
01:03:35,640 --> 01:03:33,760
reluctant we've got more to come with

1668
01:03:46,910 --> 01:03:35,650
Gina and Chris and Micah Hanks you're in

1669
01:03:51,120 --> 01:03:49,380
attack of the rock AIDS has been

1670
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well-received by critics and readers

1671
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alike it's a thrill a minute story

1672
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you'll never forget a former US military

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intelligence officer is haunted by

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intense dreams about a beautiful woman

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pleading for his help after a terrible

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battle in outer space but the dreams

1677
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turn out to be true and thrust him into

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a telepathic love affair with a woman

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whose faraway planet is intent on

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destroying the earth and now the

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hi it's grant Cameron from presidential

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UFO calm you're listening to the Peres

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cast the gold standard of paranormal

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radio we have a second radio show after

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01:08:16,460 --> 01:08:13,860
the power cast and we do unusual things

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there or unexpected things so for

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example last week we had Paul Kimball in

1777
01:08:24,410 --> 01:08:21,750
response to a listeners question go

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01:08:27,110 --> 01:08:24,420
through some of the key cases and best

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evidence and raise questions about his

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top 10 only available if you subscribe

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to the podcast plus go to plus stop our

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cast icon plus not the power cast come

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instructions we also give you a version

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plus not the power of cast calm so I was

1790
01:08:58,490 --> 01:08:56,880
mentioning here the Kecksburg there's an

1791
01:09:00,020 --> 01:08:58,500
alternate explanation that certainly

1792
01:09:02,720 --> 01:09:00,030
seems to have value and I've read it and

1793
01:09:04,490 --> 01:09:02,730
the rest of the crew has read it but

1794
01:09:08,930 --> 01:09:04,500
someone like a Stan Gordon will be

1795
01:09:11,000 --> 01:09:08,940
reluctant to see that and I hope it's

1796
01:09:11,600 --> 01:09:11,010
because he still feels the evidence is

1797
01:09:14,210 --> 01:09:11,610
compelling

1798
01:09:16,640 --> 01:09:14,220
not because he's unwilling to admit that

1799
01:09:18,560 --> 01:09:16,650
maybe a case he felt was genuine turns

1800
01:09:21,320 --> 01:09:18,570
out to be otherwise it's like what

1801
01:09:23,960 --> 01:09:21,330
happened if Stanton Friedman ever says

1802
01:09:25,490 --> 01:09:23,970
or admits that the mj-12 documents are

1803
01:09:29,570 --> 01:09:25,500
false I don't think it's ever gonna have

1804
01:09:31,940 --> 01:09:29,580
it well you know really quickly without

1805
01:09:33,560 --> 01:09:31,950
mr. Gordon he's always been a really

1806
01:09:36,470 --> 01:09:33,570
great researcher and I actually ran into

1807
01:09:38,210 --> 01:09:36,480
him up in Kentucky just a few weeks ago

1808
01:09:39,800 --> 01:09:38,220
he was at one of the decrypted con

1809
01:09:41,780 --> 01:09:39,810
conference that my friend Tiffany and I

1810
01:09:44,900 --> 01:09:41,790
went to and again you know I respect

1811
01:09:46,880 --> 01:09:44,910
people who have put decades of work into

1812
01:09:48,410 --> 01:09:46,890
research like this but one thing I've

1813
01:09:50,510 --> 01:09:48,420
always thought about Kecksburg too is

1814
01:09:52,460 --> 01:09:50,520
that the primary description of an acorn

1815
01:09:54,830 --> 01:09:52,470
like or something you know resembling

1816
01:09:56,030 --> 01:09:54,840
that kind of a shape that's always kind

1817
01:09:57,920 --> 01:09:56,040
of reminded me of some of the Soyuz

1818
01:10:00,410 --> 01:09:57,930
capsules and some of the other Soviet

1819
01:10:02,810 --> 01:10:00,420
spacecraft and satellites and things

1820
01:10:03,590 --> 01:10:02,820
like that so again to me that seems to

1821
01:10:06,170 --> 01:10:03,600
be a more like

1822
01:10:08,900 --> 01:10:06,180
Clee explanation and when we are faced

1823
01:10:11,900 --> 01:10:08,910
with a popular UFO report in which there

1824
01:10:13,910 --> 01:10:11,910
is a likely scenario which also seems to

1825
01:10:16,010 --> 01:10:13,920
fit all the evidence I'm all for going

1826
01:10:17,120 --> 01:10:16,020
with you and follow Occam's razor and at

1827
01:10:19,370 --> 01:10:17,130
least say that you know this is what

1828
01:10:20,840 --> 01:10:19,380
seems most likely here again coming back

1829
01:10:23,090 --> 01:10:20,850
to something Chris that you mentioned

1830
01:10:25,100 --> 01:10:23,100
you talked about the the st. Clair

1831
01:10:26,630 --> 01:10:25,110
County UFO incident which involved

1832
01:10:28,250 --> 01:10:26,640
numerous people in Southern Illinois

1833
01:10:29,510 --> 01:10:28,260
there were police officers who all

1834
01:10:31,580 --> 01:10:29,520
observed a large one of these large

1835
01:10:33,620 --> 01:10:31,590
triangles let's talk about that for a

1836
01:10:35,930 --> 01:10:33,630
minute because again here we have a case

1837
01:10:36,770 --> 01:10:35,940
where we have multiple witnesses all of

1838
01:10:38,900 --> 01:10:36,780
these witnesses are law enforcement

1839
01:10:40,610 --> 01:10:38,910
officers in addition to the law

1840
01:10:42,890 --> 01:10:40,620
enforcement officers witnessing it we

1841
01:10:45,260 --> 01:10:42,900
also have had made publicly available

1842
01:10:46,580 --> 01:10:45,270
since that incident the dispatch

1843
01:10:48,080 --> 01:10:46,590
recordings which give real-time

1844
01:10:49,160 --> 01:10:48,090
descriptions of what the officers said

1845
01:10:51,590 --> 01:10:49,170
that they were seeing that's key because

1846
01:10:53,690 --> 01:10:51,600
law enforcement UFO sightings are very

1847
01:10:55,010 --> 01:10:53,700
unique in the sense that most people

1848
01:10:56,750 --> 01:10:55,020
don't carry around recording devices

1849
01:10:58,070 --> 01:10:56,760
actually of course on your iPhone you've

1850
01:11:00,200 --> 01:10:58,080
got a recording device right there and

1851
01:11:01,400 --> 01:11:00,210
it's better quality than anything that

1852
01:11:03,530 --> 01:11:01,410
you used to have back in the day of tape

1853
01:11:05,600 --> 01:11:03,540
or even some of the more recent digital

1854
01:11:07,850 --> 01:11:05,610
in recent years but those police

1855
01:11:10,070 --> 01:11:07,860
dispatch recordings do give a real-time

1856
01:11:11,870 --> 01:11:10,080
running commentary on the visual as it's

1857
01:11:14,240 --> 01:11:11,880
being described we know how memories can

1858
01:11:15,710 --> 01:11:14,250
be updated sometimes after a person has

1859
01:11:17,030 --> 01:11:15,720
seen something and it's important to be

1860
01:11:18,920 --> 01:11:17,040
able to have that real-time description

1861
01:11:20,690 --> 01:11:18,930
some of these law enforcement officer

1862
01:11:22,700 --> 01:11:20,700
reports give us that in the st. Clair

1863
01:11:24,410 --> 01:11:22,710
County incident was one of those but the

1864
01:11:26,360 --> 01:11:24,420
other important thing to address about

1865
01:11:27,830 --> 01:11:26,370
this they all described a

1866
01:11:28,970 --> 01:11:27,840
triangular-shaped object I think one of

1867
01:11:30,380 --> 01:11:28,980
the only people who didn't was the

1868
01:11:32,270 --> 01:11:30,390
trucker who had come in early that

1869
01:11:34,190 --> 01:11:32,280
morning who had reported it initially to

1870
01:11:35,240 --> 01:11:34,200
the police there in southern Illinois he

1871
01:11:36,860 --> 01:11:35,250
said it looked like it could have been

1872
01:11:39,560 --> 01:11:36,870
square-shaped he said whatever was look

1873
01:11:41,270 --> 01:11:39,570
like a flying house and you got to keep

1874
01:11:43,100 --> 01:11:41,280
in mind that as the officers are going

1875
01:11:44,750 --> 01:11:43,110
out there and responding numb a number

1876
01:11:46,790 --> 01:11:44,760
of them not only saw the craft but they

1877
01:11:48,170 --> 01:11:46,800
all gave a similar description yet again

1878
01:11:50,870 --> 01:11:48,180
of the large triangle aircraft which

1879
01:11:52,220 --> 01:11:50,880
that also is consistent with multiple

1880
01:11:53,840 --> 01:11:52,230
other reports as we've already heard a

1881
01:11:54,950 --> 01:11:53,850
few just in my personal collection there

1882
01:11:56,720 --> 01:11:54,960
are plenty others that are publicly

1883
01:11:58,250 --> 01:11:56,730
available in some made to agencies like

1884
01:11:59,120 --> 01:11:58,260
MUFON and the like David Marlowe's

1885
01:11:59,600 --> 01:11:59,130
written the whole book about this

1886
01:12:02,450 --> 01:11:59,610
subject

1887
01:12:03,650 --> 01:12:02,460
no skeptic Brian Dunning there's some

1888
01:12:04,850 --> 01:12:03,660
things he's done that I really

1889
01:12:07,160 --> 01:12:04,860
appreciate he's written some good

1890
01:12:08,360 --> 01:12:07,170
articles I've even cited him as a source

1891
01:12:10,130 --> 01:12:08,370
and some of my own books and articles

1892
01:12:11,630 --> 01:12:10,140
because I always do appreciate the

1893
01:12:14,060 --> 01:12:11,640
perspective of skeptics but his

1894
01:12:16,569 --> 01:12:14,070
explanation for that incident strains

1895
01:12:18,339 --> 01:12:16,579
credulity and I mean bad

1896
01:12:20,350 --> 01:12:18,349
and I hope at some point I can talk with

1897
01:12:21,879 --> 01:12:20,360
him about this because Brian when he was

1898
01:12:23,350 --> 01:12:21,889
on the jet Rogan podcast at one point

1899
01:12:24,580 --> 01:12:23,360
said that you know as recently as 10

1900
01:12:26,919 --> 01:12:24,590
years ago I would have believed in the

1901
01:12:28,600 --> 01:12:26,929
patterson-gimlin footage of Bigfoot and

1902
01:12:31,419 --> 01:12:28,610
you know I had to come train myself to

1903
01:12:32,799 --> 01:12:31,429
be skeptical that's important because we

1904
01:12:34,330 --> 01:12:32,809
do need to train ourselves and challenge

1905
01:12:35,530 --> 01:12:34,340
ourselves to be skeptical critical

1906
01:12:37,450 --> 01:12:35,540
thinking is important and there's a

1907
01:12:38,740 --> 01:12:37,460
deficit of that in this country I won't

1908
01:12:40,359 --> 01:12:38,750
talk about the current administration

1909
01:12:42,490 --> 01:12:40,369
I'll just leave that to the minds of the

1910
01:12:43,899 --> 01:12:42,500
listeners but I will say this I will

1911
01:12:46,060 --> 01:12:43,909
absolutely say that you can maybe

1912
01:12:47,500 --> 01:12:46,070
sometimes become so skeptical that you

1913
01:12:49,299 --> 01:12:47,510
start falling into sort of an

1914
01:12:51,790 --> 01:12:49,309
ideological trap where you no longer

1915
01:12:53,709 --> 01:12:51,800
believe anything that's associated with

1916
01:12:55,870 --> 01:12:53,719
the Fringe Brian Dining's explanation

1917
01:12:57,700 --> 01:12:55,880
for the st. Clair County UFO all of

1918
01:12:59,919 --> 01:12:57,710
these officers saw one of the American

1919
01:13:02,709 --> 01:12:59,929
airship company's blimps it was giving a

1920
01:13:04,390 --> 01:13:02,719
VIP tour because it was 3 a.m. unable to

1921
01:13:05,979 --> 01:13:04,400
discern the features of the blimp which

1922
01:13:07,510 --> 01:13:05,989
operated frequently in that area now

1923
01:13:09,760 --> 01:13:07,520
what Brian failed to do of course with

1924
01:13:12,069 --> 01:13:09,770
his explanation he failed to give any

1925
01:13:14,319 --> 01:13:12,079
record from the airship company or

1926
01:13:16,390 --> 01:13:14,329
anything that he produced of his own no

1927
01:13:17,740 --> 01:13:16,400
record was provided that actually showed

1928
01:13:19,240 --> 01:13:17,750
without question that one of the

1929
01:13:21,370 --> 01:13:19,250
American airship companies blimps was

1930
01:13:22,660 --> 01:13:21,380
operating over Saint Clair County at 3

1931
01:13:24,580 --> 01:13:22,670
o'clock in the morning there was no

1932
01:13:27,490 --> 01:13:24,590
rationale for why anybody would be given

1933
01:13:29,350 --> 01:13:27,500
a VIP tour at that hour ok and he gave

1934
01:13:30,819 --> 01:13:29,360
no explanation for why every one of the

1935
01:13:32,649 --> 01:13:30,829
officers including one who photographed

1936
01:13:34,120 --> 01:13:32,659
the object with the Polaroid camera said

1937
01:13:35,740 --> 01:13:34,130
that it was trying to her shake now the

1938
01:13:37,450 --> 01:13:35,750
photograph didn't look very good it left

1939
01:13:38,530 --> 01:13:37,460
a lot to the imagination but it clearly

1940
01:13:40,299 --> 01:13:38,540
showed that there was some sort of an

1941
01:13:41,709 --> 01:13:40,309
object and the lighting pattern was

1942
01:13:43,089 --> 01:13:41,719
consistent with the three points of

1943
01:13:45,790 --> 01:13:43,099
light that one of the officers said it

1944
01:13:47,890 --> 01:13:45,800
was a apparent one of them moving on the

1945
01:13:49,390 --> 01:13:47,900
back of this craft so I mean what little

1946
01:13:51,280 --> 01:13:49,400
that photograph actually showed us being

1947
01:13:52,479 --> 01:13:51,290
a Polaroid photograph I mean at least it

1948
01:13:54,040 --> 01:13:52,489
did seem to indicate that there might

1949
01:13:55,810 --> 01:13:54,050
have been an object there so again we've

1950
01:13:56,979 --> 01:13:55,820
got the witness testimony from the law

1951
01:13:59,260 --> 01:13:56,989
enforcement officers we have the

1952
01:14:00,459 --> 01:13:59,270
dispatch recordings and we have others

1953
01:14:01,780 --> 01:14:00,469
who'd said that they had seen that who

1954
01:14:03,310 --> 01:14:01,790
have come forward since and said that

1955
01:14:04,600 --> 01:14:03,320
they actually observe this object on the

1956
01:14:05,979 --> 01:14:04,610
same night in question most of them

1957
01:14:07,990 --> 01:14:05,989
truckers and people who were out late at

1958
01:14:10,240 --> 01:14:08,000
night if we're gonna say that this was

1959
01:14:11,589 --> 01:14:10,250
something conventional tell me again why

1960
01:14:13,390 --> 01:14:11,599
the airship company would have been

1961
01:14:14,950 --> 01:14:13,400
giving the VIP tour at that time of

1962
01:14:16,629 --> 01:14:14,960
night and let's see a record of the

1963
01:14:19,660 --> 01:14:16,639
flight at that time they surely must

1964
01:14:21,520 --> 01:14:19,670
keep a record of such things to me that

1965
01:14:23,260 --> 01:14:21,530
explanation to the skeptical mind while

1966
01:14:25,359 --> 01:14:23,270
it may seem more likely that's because

1967
01:14:27,700 --> 01:14:25,369
they are discounting the existing

1968
01:14:29,209 --> 01:14:27,710
information upon which this is built

1969
01:14:30,649 --> 01:14:29,219
which is numerous other

1970
01:14:32,930 --> 01:14:30,659
counters and sightings that people have

1971
01:14:34,729 --> 01:14:32,940
had with a remarkably similar aircraft

1972
01:14:36,259 --> 01:14:34,739
one of Dunning's other points was he

1973
01:14:37,700 --> 01:14:36,269
said that well you know no two of these

1974
01:14:39,259 --> 01:14:37,710
triangle sightings actually is

1975
01:14:41,540 --> 01:14:39,269
consistent they change from sighting

1976
01:14:43,430 --> 01:14:41,550
deciding deciding no actually they don't

1977
01:14:44,959 --> 01:14:43,440
the majority of them describe exactly

1978
01:14:47,029 --> 01:14:44,969
what we've been talking about a large

1979
01:14:49,009 --> 01:14:47,039
triangle shaped object very dark flies

1980
01:14:50,509 --> 01:14:49,019
typically at fairly low altitude usually

1981
01:14:53,540 --> 01:14:50,519
moves kind of slowly sometimes it will

1982
01:14:55,040 --> 01:14:53,550
accelerate in almost anomalously before

1983
01:14:57,140 --> 01:14:55,050
it slows down again as the one over st.

1984
01:14:58,459 --> 01:14:57,150
Claire County did if there are lights

1985
01:15:00,439 --> 01:14:58,469
seen they're usually on the back of the

1986
01:15:01,790 --> 01:15:00,449
craft or there are three points white

1987
01:15:02,899 --> 01:15:01,800
lights typically at the three points and

1988
01:15:04,339 --> 01:15:02,909
then a reddish light that's often

1989
01:15:07,069 --> 01:15:04,349
described in the center on the base

1990
01:15:09,049 --> 01:15:07,079
those those descriptions are actually

1991
01:15:10,910 --> 01:15:09,059
quite consistent and so what I would

1992
01:15:12,410 --> 01:15:10,920
challenge skeptics like Brian Dunning to

1993
01:15:15,439 --> 01:15:12,420
do and this isn't an attack against him

1994
01:15:17,299 --> 01:15:15,449
it's a again a reasonable request I

1995
01:15:20,089 --> 01:15:17,309
think please look at more of the data

1996
01:15:22,160 --> 01:15:20,099
before you discount a multiple witness

1997
01:15:23,270 --> 01:15:22,170
law enforcement sighting of one of these

1998
01:15:25,279 --> 01:15:23,280
objects because they aren't the only

1999
01:15:27,649 --> 01:15:25,289
ones that saw it I'm gonna ask an

2000
01:15:29,120 --> 01:15:27,659
outside question which contradicts what

2001
01:15:31,100 --> 01:15:29,130
you just said but there's a point to it

2002
01:15:34,219 --> 01:15:31,110
what if at the end of the day all the

2003
01:15:35,779 --> 01:15:34,229
key cases in the UFO field that we've

2004
01:15:38,919 --> 01:15:35,789
depended on to indicate something

2005
01:15:41,719 --> 01:15:38,929
strange is going on could be explained

2006
01:15:44,089 --> 01:15:41,729
conventionally somehow where would we be

2007
01:15:46,100 --> 01:15:44,099
left with all that after all these years

2008
01:15:49,160 --> 01:15:46,110
you see back in the early days the air

2009
01:15:51,680 --> 01:15:49,170
force contention was that even the

2010
01:15:54,200 --> 01:15:51,690
so-called unknowns in the project

2011
01:15:55,520 --> 01:15:54,210
Bluebook reports would be explained if

2012
01:15:57,620 --> 01:15:55,530
they had enough information now we

2013
01:16:00,020 --> 01:15:57,630
understand the Air Force and other

2014
01:16:03,049 --> 01:16:00,030
skeptics would stretch the truth

2015
01:16:06,229 --> 01:16:03,059
but what if most of the key cases ended

2016
01:16:09,529 --> 01:16:06,239
up being something that can be explained

2017
01:16:11,899 --> 01:16:09,539
and it may require rechecking the facts

2018
01:16:13,609 --> 01:16:11,909
rechecking the memories human memory is

2019
01:16:15,919 --> 01:16:13,619
a lot less perfect than we thought it

2020
01:16:17,600 --> 01:16:15,929
was what would happen that would be a

2021
01:16:19,370 --> 01:16:17,610
question of the ages and I got a lot of

2022
01:16:22,339 --> 01:16:19,380
other questions to ask of our guest

2023
01:16:24,350 --> 01:16:22,349
Micah Hanks of the graylien report and

2024
01:16:25,850 --> 01:16:24,360
he's got so many things going on in his

2025
01:16:28,549 --> 01:16:25,860
site he'll tell you later

2026
01:16:39,120 --> 01:16:28,559
lots of fascinating stuff with Gene and

2027
01:16:47,650 --> 01:16:43,150
thank you for listening to GCN

2028
01:16:49,540 --> 01:16:47,660
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[Music]

2131
01:21:00,010 --> 01:20:57,470
once I compete in other books when

2132
01:21:10,939 --> 01:21:00,020
you're listening to the podcast

2133
01:21:17,040 --> 01:21:13,820
so the question on the table Micah Hanks

2134
01:21:18,990 --> 01:21:17,050
could it possibly be it's all for not as

2135
01:21:21,149 --> 01:21:19,000
compelling as some of these cases are

2136
01:21:24,570 --> 01:21:21,159
and we could certainly find reasons why

2137
01:21:26,550 --> 01:21:24,580
and the case you cited you know it

2138
01:21:29,280 --> 01:21:26,560
couldn't been conventional well if it

2139
01:21:31,890 --> 01:21:29,290
was what if it was well I mean my

2140
01:21:33,330 --> 01:21:31,900
feeling is simply this in the case that

2141
01:21:34,860 --> 01:21:33,340
we discussed but I want to get into the

2142
01:21:36,360 --> 01:21:34,870
broader question here in a moment but in

2143
01:21:38,100 --> 01:21:36,370
the case we just discussed before the

2144
01:21:41,130 --> 01:21:38,110
break with the st. Clair County multiple

2145
01:21:44,450 --> 01:21:41,140
witness law enforcement officer sighting

2146
01:21:48,479 --> 01:21:44,460
of this triangle over southern Illinois

2147
01:21:50,010 --> 01:21:48,489
the descriptions to me again are the

2148
01:21:54,300 --> 01:21:50,020
descriptions given by the officers all

2149
01:21:56,160 --> 01:21:54,310
match generally and those also seem to

2150
01:21:58,260 --> 01:21:56,170
be consistent with other reports of this

2151
01:22:00,120 --> 01:21:58,270
kind of a large aircraft now would it be

2152
01:22:02,370 --> 01:22:00,130
a conventional explanation if again

2153
01:22:04,620 --> 01:22:02,380
there is a secret government project if

2154
01:22:06,450 --> 01:22:04,630
this is a DARPA stealth blimp if this is

2155
01:22:08,430 --> 01:22:06,460
something the Pentagon uses again one of

2156
01:22:10,320 --> 01:22:08,440
Brian Dunning's arguments against it had

2157
01:22:11,970 --> 01:22:10,330
been well if this is a stealth aircraft

2158
01:22:13,919 --> 01:22:11,980
they wouldn't be flying it over you know

2159
01:22:15,180 --> 01:22:13,929
a fairly populated area where everybody

2160
01:22:17,459 --> 01:22:15,190
might see it but then again you got to

2161
01:22:19,620 --> 01:22:17,469
keep in mind is it more likely that an

2162
01:22:21,689 --> 01:22:19,630
aircraft like that if it had to cross

2163
01:22:24,149 --> 01:22:21,699
the distance between two routes is gonna

2164
01:22:25,620 --> 01:22:24,159
fly over a populated area and do so at 3

2165
01:22:27,990 --> 01:22:25,630
a.m. when there are fewer people likely

2166
01:22:30,209 --> 01:22:28,000
to see it then the American airship

2167
01:22:32,340 --> 01:22:30,219
company giving a VIP tour at that hour

2168
01:22:33,899 --> 01:22:32,350
again one of those actually to me in

2169
01:22:36,030 --> 01:22:33,909
terms of if we're dealing with a stealth

2170
01:22:37,500 --> 01:22:36,040
US government craft makes a lot of sense

2171
01:22:38,689 --> 01:22:37,510
the other if we're dealing with the

2172
01:22:42,270 --> 01:22:38,699
conventional aircraft that's

2173
01:22:44,220 --> 01:22:42,280
mysteriously 7 or 8 officers of the law

2174
01:22:45,540 --> 01:22:44,230
couldn't discern from being a blimp even

2175
01:22:47,729 --> 01:22:45,550
at 3 a.m. despite the fact that the

2176
01:22:49,800 --> 01:22:47,739
thing had lights on it that doesn't make

2177
01:22:51,570 --> 01:22:49,810
a lot of sense to me so if you want to

2178
01:22:53,100 --> 01:22:51,580
call a government secret project a

2179
01:22:55,410 --> 01:22:53,110
conventional explanation I actually

2180
01:22:57,590 --> 01:22:55,420
already endorsed that idea and I think

2181
01:22:59,669 --> 01:22:57,600
that yes these are conventional

2182
01:23:01,020 --> 01:22:59,679
explanations the problem is is that when

2183
01:23:02,610 --> 01:23:01,030
we're trying to frame the narrative we

2184
01:23:04,320 --> 01:23:02,620
don't have all the facts because of the

2185
01:23:06,060 --> 01:23:04,330
necessary secrecy related to those

2186
01:23:07,950 --> 01:23:06,070
subjects but in the broader context of

2187
01:23:10,500 --> 01:23:07,960
ufology if we could look back and we

2188
01:23:12,570 --> 01:23:10,510
could say what was really going on yeah

2189
01:23:13,740 --> 01:23:12,580
I'd say at least half but probably

2190
01:23:16,080 --> 01:23:13,750
better does have to do with

2191
01:23:16,770 --> 01:23:16,090
misperception of again probably fairly

2192
01:23:18,780 --> 01:23:16,780
prosaic

2193
01:23:20,070 --> 01:23:18,790
technologies and phenomena some of them

2194
01:23:22,709 --> 01:23:20,080
not technology at all some of them

2195
01:23:25,320 --> 01:23:22,719
merely natural things the way the

2196
01:23:27,000 --> 01:23:25,330
people's minds interpret that not only

2197
01:23:28,649 --> 01:23:27,010
at the time of the sighting but also the

2198
01:23:29,820 --> 01:23:28,659
way that that kind of memory is updated

2199
01:23:32,430 --> 01:23:29,830
thereafter there's probably that

2200
01:23:33,930 --> 01:23:32,440
psychological component again there have

2201
01:23:35,729 --> 01:23:33,940
been a lot of researches over the years

2202
01:23:37,080 --> 01:23:35,739
Allen Henry had famously said that we

2203
01:23:40,260 --> 01:23:37,090
have to be able to take into account

2204
01:23:42,240 --> 01:23:40,270
delusions and fantasies and I mean it's

2205
01:23:43,830 --> 01:23:42,250
it's sad but I've spoken with people who

2206
01:23:45,270 --> 01:23:43,840
I knew based on what they described

2207
01:23:46,680 --> 01:23:45,280
we're looking at the planet Venus and

2208
01:23:48,060 --> 01:23:46,690
they constructed these beautiful

2209
01:23:49,169 --> 01:23:48,070
narratives about all the paranormal

2210
01:23:50,520 --> 01:23:49,179
phenomena that happened while they were

2211
01:23:52,200 --> 01:23:50,530
standing out in their backyard and had

2212
01:23:54,060 --> 01:23:52,210
this beautiful family experience looking

2213
01:23:55,229 --> 01:23:54,070
at the planet Venus and you know

2214
01:23:56,610 --> 01:23:55,239
sometimes you just got to kind of kick

2215
01:23:58,620 --> 01:23:56,620
back and listen to them let them tell

2216
01:23:59,729 --> 01:23:58,630
the story that they want to tell all the

2217
01:24:01,680 --> 01:23:59,739
while I know that they they were

2218
01:24:03,120 --> 01:24:01,690
creating this incredible fantastic

2219
01:24:05,070 --> 01:24:03,130
narrative in their minds as they're

2220
01:24:07,680 --> 01:24:05,080
standing there looking at you know one

2221
01:24:10,229 --> 01:24:07,690
of our nearby planetary bodies here in

2222
01:24:11,490 --> 01:24:10,239
our solar system so you know yeah all of

2223
01:24:13,140 --> 01:24:11,500
those things must be taken into

2224
01:24:14,820 --> 01:24:13,150
consideration but I would absolutely say

2225
01:24:16,979 --> 01:24:14,830
that in the you know over the over the

2226
01:24:17,669 --> 01:24:16,989
last course of you know 50 years or so

2227
01:24:20,220 --> 01:24:17,679
of ufology

2228
01:24:23,129 --> 01:24:20,230
yeah probably conventional explanations

2229
01:24:25,740 --> 01:24:23,139
could be applied to the majority now

2230
01:24:28,110 --> 01:24:25,750
here's the thing - that works to the

2231
01:24:31,320 --> 01:24:28,120
advantage of the government you want to

2232
01:24:34,080 --> 01:24:31,330
keep something secret well people will

2233
01:24:36,510 --> 01:24:34,090
just say it's a UFO if they see it so

2234
01:24:38,550 --> 01:24:36,520
that is your excuse well UFOs are

2235
01:24:41,490 --> 01:24:38,560
ridiculous you saw UFO that's just

2236
01:24:44,189 --> 01:24:41,500
something that's not real so we'll just

2237
01:24:46,919 --> 01:24:44,199
use that as our excuse that's a way of

2238
01:24:49,320 --> 01:24:46,929
providing disinformation it advances

2239
01:24:51,570 --> 01:24:49,330
their cause and unfortunately if there's

2240
01:24:53,790 --> 01:24:51,580
real stuff going on there that also

2241
01:24:56,640 --> 01:24:53,800
advances the cause of keeping it a

2242
01:24:58,200 --> 01:24:56,650
secret from us absolutely

2243
01:25:00,149 --> 01:24:58,210
yeah see I think that again people laugh

2244
01:25:02,070 --> 01:25:00,159
at the idea of disinformation oh the

2245
01:25:03,450 --> 01:25:02,080
government the government's out to get

2246
01:25:05,490 --> 01:25:03,460
us so the government's doing this the

2247
01:25:08,370 --> 01:25:05,500
government's doing that there is

2248
01:25:10,080 --> 01:25:08,380
historical precedent for people not only

2249
01:25:12,390 --> 01:25:10,090
like with Paul bennewitz and the Richard

2250
01:25:14,970 --> 01:25:12,400
Doty affair people being given bad

2251
01:25:17,040 --> 01:25:14,980
information the problem is is that we

2252
01:25:20,100 --> 01:25:17,050
most often associate that with fringe

2253
01:25:21,149 --> 01:25:20,110
topics like UFOs look at situations you

2254
01:25:22,740 --> 01:25:21,159
know I don't know where somebody may be

2255
01:25:24,810 --> 01:25:22,750
investigating something with regard to

2256
01:25:26,070 --> 01:25:24,820
environmental protections you know or

2257
01:25:27,570 --> 01:25:26,080
environmental issues think about

2258
01:25:28,800 --> 01:25:27,580
instances there if we

2259
01:25:31,110 --> 01:25:28,810
look into the data and again that's not

2260
01:25:32,250 --> 01:25:31,120
my purview so I don't have information I

2261
01:25:34,470 --> 01:25:32,260
can draw from directly but I'm

2262
01:25:37,020 --> 01:25:34,480
guaranteed you probably find whether it

2263
01:25:38,700 --> 01:25:37,030
be in pharmaceutical studies whether it

2264
01:25:40,560 --> 01:25:38,710
be with environmental agencies and

2265
01:25:41,910 --> 01:25:40,570
Environmental Protection's whether it

2266
01:25:44,640 --> 01:25:41,920
involves national parks where there

2267
01:25:46,320 --> 01:25:44,650
involves you know infrastructure who

2268
01:25:48,270 --> 01:25:46,330
knows there are probably other instances

2269
01:25:49,800 --> 01:25:48,280
where bad information is given to the

2270
01:25:53,220 --> 01:25:49,810
public in order to do one of two things

2271
01:25:55,350 --> 01:25:53,230
a protect secrets that the government

2272
01:25:58,050 --> 01:25:55,360
maintains for reasons of national

2273
01:26:00,420 --> 01:25:58,060
security - there could be a bureaucratic

2274
01:26:02,340 --> 01:26:00,430
aspect to some of it which may involve

2275
01:26:03,780 --> 01:26:02,350
special interests and the like I mean

2276
01:26:05,370 --> 01:26:03,790
there any number of other scenarios but

2277
01:26:07,230 --> 01:26:05,380
again I think that there are plenty of

2278
01:26:08,370 --> 01:26:07,240
historical instances where one could

2279
01:26:10,890 --> 01:26:08,380
actually look at this that'd be a great

2280
01:26:14,130 --> 01:26:10,900
idea for a book well outside the scope

2281
01:26:16,440 --> 01:26:14,140
of just ufology instances where where

2282
01:26:19,200 --> 01:26:16,450
civilians have been lied to or given bad

2283
01:26:21,390 --> 01:26:19,210
information explicitly and intentionally

2284
01:26:23,880 --> 01:26:21,400
so as to misdirect public opinion on a

2285
01:26:25,830 --> 01:26:23,890
subject in order to preserve secrecy

2286
01:26:28,650 --> 01:26:25,840
there's sadly and that sounds like an

2287
01:26:29,820 --> 01:26:28,660
awful thing to have people do especially

2288
01:26:31,860 --> 01:26:29,830
our government officials who we elect

2289
01:26:33,300 --> 01:26:31,870
and who we pay although a lot of our non

2290
01:26:36,090 --> 01:26:33,310
elected officials are the ones probably

2291
01:26:37,680 --> 01:26:36,100
behind this kind of a thing but I do

2292
01:26:39,420 --> 01:26:37,690
think that we have to keep in mind that

2293
01:26:41,130 --> 01:26:39,430
it's not only a likelihood but again

2294
01:26:43,020 --> 01:26:41,140
there's historical precedent for it so

2295
01:26:45,330 --> 01:26:43,030
the Paul bennewitz affair is outlined in

2296
01:26:47,640 --> 01:26:45,340
Greg bishops book project beta it's it's

2297
01:26:49,110 --> 01:26:47,650
just one of probably numerous maybe

2298
01:26:50,760 --> 01:26:49,120
countless instances where that kind of

2299
01:26:53,010 --> 01:26:50,770
thing has happened and in large part

2300
01:26:54,840 --> 01:26:53,020
probably most of the UFO phenomena could

2301
01:26:56,940 --> 01:26:54,850
be explained as a result of those kinds

2302
01:26:58,260 --> 01:26:56,950
of operations and another thing to bear

2303
01:27:00,870 --> 01:26:58,270
in mind in terms of classifying

2304
01:27:04,140 --> 01:27:00,880
something is secret one thing came out

2305
01:27:06,450 --> 01:27:04,150
of this controversy over the Hillary

2306
01:27:08,580 --> 01:27:06,460
Clinton emails about alleged classified

2307
01:27:11,400 --> 01:27:08,590
information and that is it's a lot

2308
01:27:14,370 --> 01:27:11,410
easier to take something and say it's

2309
01:27:16,530 --> 01:27:14,380
classified than to let it out there and

2310
01:27:19,710 --> 01:27:16,540
it turned out in that particular case a

2311
01:27:21,480 --> 01:27:19,720
lot of things that were already public

2312
01:27:23,970 --> 01:27:21,490
domain there were newspapers they're

2313
01:27:26,790 --> 01:27:23,980
already available online but the

2314
01:27:28,080 --> 01:27:26,800
government called them secret anyway you

2315
01:27:31,020 --> 01:27:28,090
know I've got a few people who are

2316
01:27:32,700 --> 01:27:31,030
formerly with government uh again I can

2317
01:27:35,610 --> 01:27:32,710
tell you explicitly I don't have any

2318
01:27:37,109 --> 01:27:35,620
friends who are actively you know

2319
01:27:38,879 --> 01:27:37,119
engaged in

2320
01:27:41,520 --> 01:27:38,889
you know secrecy or anything like that

2321
01:27:43,199 --> 01:27:41,530
by virtue of their job detail at the

2322
01:27:44,909 --> 01:27:43,209
Pentagon or anything like that nobody

2323
01:27:46,290 --> 01:27:44,919
gives me secret information I've never

2324
01:27:48,299 --> 01:27:46,300
been privy to that kind of thing however

2325
01:27:50,129 --> 01:27:48,309
much I may want it especially related to

2326
01:27:51,330 --> 01:27:50,139
UFOs but again these are national

2327
01:27:52,979 --> 01:27:51,340
security measures and there are also

2328
01:27:54,770 --> 01:27:52,989
laws that prevent that kind of thing and

2329
01:27:57,330 --> 01:27:54,780
could even affect somebody like me so

2330
01:27:59,219 --> 01:27:57,340
fortunately we might also say nobody's

2331
01:28:01,109 --> 01:27:59,229
ever leaked any information to me but we

2332
01:28:03,179 --> 01:28:01,119
do see this as far as you know the media

2333
01:28:05,369 --> 01:28:03,189
journalism and whatnot this happens

2334
01:28:07,169 --> 01:28:05,379
quite often in this age of WikiLeaks we

2335
01:28:09,299 --> 01:28:07,179
do know that information is obtained and

2336
01:28:11,159 --> 01:28:09,309
then leaked to the public but I did have

2337
01:28:13,229 --> 01:28:11,169
a friend who as a former advisor at the

2338
01:28:14,429 --> 01:28:13,239
Pentagon and he and I were having a very

2339
01:28:16,109 --> 01:28:14,439
candid discussion about some of these

2340
01:28:18,330 --> 01:28:16,119
things and he he's a friend who often

2341
01:28:19,469 --> 01:28:18,340
takes it upon himself to brief me on the

2342
01:28:21,389 --> 01:28:19,479
realities of how some of these

2343
01:28:23,819 --> 01:28:21,399
debriefing processes and things like

2344
01:28:25,020 --> 01:28:23,829
this go so that I can be aware of it I

2345
01:28:26,429 --> 01:28:25,030
don't have any kind of a functional

2346
01:28:28,290 --> 01:28:26,439
background with US military or

2347
01:28:30,000 --> 01:28:28,300
intelligence and so he says you're very

2348
01:28:30,959 --> 01:28:30,010
smart you got the right idea Michael but

2349
01:28:32,580 --> 01:28:30,969
you know with your research there are

2350
01:28:34,020 --> 01:28:32,590
some things that by virtue of not having

2351
01:28:36,330 --> 01:28:34,030
worked in that world yourself you're

2352
01:28:38,459 --> 01:28:36,340
kind of ignorant too and hence I can

2353
01:28:39,929 --> 01:28:38,469
explain how those processes working one

2354
01:28:42,689 --> 01:28:39,939
thing he'd absolutely told me on

2355
01:28:44,790 --> 01:28:42,699
numerous occasions was that you know

2356
01:28:46,259 --> 01:28:44,800
essentially if you're in a situation

2357
01:28:48,149 --> 01:28:46,269
where information has been released

2358
01:28:49,830 --> 01:28:48,159
Michael you could if it's been leaked

2359
01:28:51,989 --> 01:28:49,840
and WikiLeaks put something out online

2360
01:28:53,489 --> 01:28:51,999
you could read that but there are some

2361
01:28:54,869 --> 01:28:53,499
situations where something is believed

2362
01:28:56,520 --> 01:28:54,879
to be classified information and I'm

2363
01:28:58,020 --> 01:28:56,530
still active duty in whatever department

2364
01:28:59,729 --> 01:28:58,030
it may actually be against the law for

2365
01:29:01,439 --> 01:28:59,739
me to read that if it's still classified

2366
01:29:04,169 --> 01:29:01,449
information and I don't have the

2367
01:29:06,569 --> 01:29:04,179
necessary classification clearance or if

2368
01:29:08,939 --> 01:29:06,579
indeed I don't have the need to know so

2369
01:29:11,100 --> 01:29:08,949
there are a lot of like levels of

2370
01:29:14,189 --> 01:29:11,110
secrecy I think and and and certain

2371
01:29:16,339 --> 01:29:14,199
certain areas of question and and maybe

2372
01:29:18,419 --> 01:29:16,349
calm dark areas as it relates to

2373
01:29:20,549 --> 01:29:18,429
clearances and secrecy and things like

2374
01:29:22,049 --> 01:29:20,559
that but yeah with the Clinton emails we

2375
01:29:24,029 --> 01:29:22,059
could talk all day about that not even

2376
01:29:26,899 --> 01:29:24,039
related to UFOs what does interest me

2377
01:29:29,129 --> 01:29:26,909
about that though are the UFO related

2378
01:29:30,449 --> 01:29:29,139
elements that came out in those in those

2379
01:29:31,949 --> 01:29:30,459
releases and I guess in this age of

2380
01:29:33,529 --> 01:29:31,959
WikiLeaks maybe we can expect to see

2381
01:29:35,669 --> 01:29:33,539
more of that kind of thing in the future

2382
01:29:37,969 --> 01:29:35,679
unfortunately when it comes to WikiLeaks

2383
01:29:40,949 --> 01:29:37,979
we don't know a hundred percent whether

2384
01:29:43,169 --> 01:29:40,959
something that is release hasn't been

2385
01:29:46,589 --> 01:29:43,179
tampered with I mean that raises all

2386
01:29:48,599 --> 01:29:46,599
sorts of eggs or fried eggs or something

2387
01:29:49,899 --> 01:29:48,609
like or broken eggs okay this is going

2388
01:29:53,470 --> 01:29:49,909
to be a strange segue

2389
01:29:55,899 --> 01:29:53,480
not about the eggs but about the after

2390
01:29:59,410 --> 01:29:55,909
the power cast podcast where Myka will

2391
01:30:01,540 --> 01:29:59,420
be on to continue this discussion once

2392
01:30:03,399 --> 01:30:01,550
we're done here that's after the power

2393
01:30:05,919 --> 01:30:03,409
cast part of the power cast plus go-to

2394
01:30:08,620 --> 01:30:05,929
plus that the power cast calm once again

2395
01:30:10,840 --> 01:30:08,630
go to plus the power cast comm for more

2396
01:30:12,879 --> 01:30:10,850
information on signing up with simple

2397
01:30:15,910 --> 01:30:12,889
signup instructions we also give you a

2398
01:30:17,709 --> 01:30:15,920
version of this show free of the network

2399
01:30:20,110 --> 01:30:17,719
heads so how about that

2400
01:30:22,330 --> 01:30:20,120
we've got Micah Hanks don't know if he

2401
01:30:24,280 --> 01:30:22,340
likes eggs or not gene Steinberg who

2402
01:30:30,830 --> 01:30:24,290
doesn't eat eggs and Chris O'Brien I

2403
01:30:42,569 --> 01:30:37,540
[Music]

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2417
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critically acclaimed success and now

2418
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there's the coming of the protectors a

2419
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former military intelligence man is

2420
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contacted by a space woman in a dream a

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dream that turns out to be a nightmare

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because evil forces on our distant

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planet are planning to conquer the earth

2424
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this is gripping science fiction of the

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classic kind attack of the rock OIG's

2426
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and the coming of the protectors find

2427
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out more at Rocko its calm that's rock

2428
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oh it's our Ock oids calm fully cooked

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2457
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you got the cold sweats and started

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2491
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2500
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2501
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[Music]

2502
01:34:59,540 --> 01:34:57,389
hi this is Bryce Abel I'm the producer

2503
01:35:01,429 --> 01:34:59,550
of dark skies the co-author of AD after

2504
01:35:03,609 --> 01:35:01,439
disclosure and you are listening to the

2505
01:35:06,020 --> 01:35:03,619
para cast the gold standard of

2506
01:35:12,689 --> 01:35:06,030
paranormal radio

2507
01:35:15,149 --> 01:35:12,699
[Music]

2508
01:35:18,160 --> 01:35:15,159
and we're not gonna crack any more eggs

2509
01:35:20,680 --> 01:35:18,170
do I attempt to crack jokes I'll leave

2510
01:35:23,050 --> 01:35:20,690
it at that you gave me a list of some

2511
01:35:25,899 --> 01:35:23,060
interesting talking points Micah before

2512
01:35:30,100 --> 01:35:25,909
we do that I would like to know what

2513
01:35:35,470 --> 01:35:30,110
Micah thinks about Tom DeLonge and mr.

2514
01:35:39,580 --> 01:35:35,480
blink-182 and his rather over-the-top

2515
01:35:41,950 --> 01:35:39,590
claims of insider knowledge and you know

2516
01:35:44,560 --> 01:35:41,960
relationships with higher-ups oh right

2517
01:35:47,140 --> 01:35:44,570
Pat and what do you make of this whole

2518
01:35:48,729 --> 01:35:47,150
scenario Michael okay that's a great

2519
01:35:50,439 --> 01:35:48,739
subject cannot be more than willing to

2520
01:35:54,700 --> 01:35:50,449
get into that before we discuss the

2521
01:35:57,040 --> 01:35:54,710
other stuff so full disclosure growing

2522
01:35:59,290 --> 01:35:57,050
up as a teenager my kid brother Caleb

2523
01:36:00,879 --> 01:35:59,300
had been ill and actually I think Chris

2524
01:36:02,379 --> 01:36:00,889
you met Caleb one year at one of the UFO

2525
01:36:02,859 --> 01:36:02,389
Congress is out there he and I were out

2526
01:36:05,740 --> 01:36:02,869
there together

2527
01:36:06,760 --> 01:36:05,750
very very oh he's incredibly a great

2528
01:36:08,410 --> 01:36:06,770
musician you know and he and I've been

2529
01:36:09,820 --> 01:36:08,420
musicians speaking of great musicians

2530
01:36:10,479 --> 01:36:09,830
and we're talking to another one here

2531
01:36:12,010 --> 01:36:10,489
Chris O'Brien

2532
01:36:15,160 --> 01:36:12,020
we keep saying we're gonna jam one of

2533
01:36:17,379 --> 01:36:15,170
these days but it's gonna happen as far

2534
01:36:19,919 --> 01:36:17,389
as Tom DeLonge does them full disclosure

2535
01:36:22,570 --> 01:36:19,929
caleb was a huge fan of blink-182 and

2536
01:36:24,250 --> 01:36:22,580
via some associations and friends that

2537
01:36:26,560 --> 01:36:24,260
we have in the UFO community when Tom

2538
01:36:28,660 --> 01:36:26,570
DeLonge got back into his UFO stuff but

2539
01:36:31,320 --> 01:36:28,670
prior to the formalization of his secret

2540
01:36:34,450 --> 01:36:31,330
machines stuff that he's doing right now

2541
01:36:36,669 --> 01:36:34,460
caleb was hired by Tom DeLonge and his

2542
01:36:39,280 --> 01:36:36,679
to the stars media company to do some

2543
01:36:40,450 --> 01:36:39,290
art for his website for articles some

2544
01:36:42,160 --> 01:36:40,460
other friends of mine Jason McClellan

2545
01:36:44,109 --> 01:36:42,170
and Maureen Elsberry were right here

2546
01:36:45,459 --> 01:36:44,119
they were writers for the website Caleb

2547
01:36:47,169 --> 01:36:45,469
would illustrate some other articles and

2548
01:36:49,359 --> 01:36:47,179
Caleb spoke to Tom DeLonge on the

2549
01:36:50,979 --> 01:36:49,369
telephone now I knew that Tom long had

2550
01:36:52,570 --> 01:36:50,989
had an interest in UFOs I was fascinated

2551
01:36:54,280 --> 01:36:52,580
by that and I'd hoped it through the

2552
01:36:56,590 --> 01:36:54,290
association that Caleb and Jason and

2553
01:36:57,870 --> 01:36:56,600
Maureen had with him and and at times of

2554
01:37:01,090 --> 01:36:57,880
personal where they spoke to him

2555
01:37:02,770 --> 01:37:01,100
relationship I'd hoped to have one thing

2556
01:37:04,359 --> 01:37:02,780
maybe occur to be able to have a

2557
01:37:06,399 --> 01:37:04,369
sit-down one-on-one with him to talk

2558
01:37:08,260 --> 01:37:06,409
about the UFO subject because I had some

2559
01:37:10,180 --> 01:37:08,270
grave concerns even at that time about

2560
01:37:11,979 --> 01:37:10,190
what information he was being given and

2561
01:37:14,260 --> 01:37:11,989
what he was trusting as far as what he

2562
01:37:16,479 --> 01:37:14,270
considered reliable sources shortly

2563
01:37:18,129 --> 01:37:16,489
thereafter my friend Jason the

2564
01:37:20,229 --> 01:37:18,139
aforementioned Jason McClellan contacted

2565
01:37:20,860 --> 01:37:20,239
me and said hey Tom's got a new book it

2566
01:37:23,260 --> 01:37:20,870
says fiction

2567
01:37:25,210 --> 01:37:23,270
novel but it's based on truth has to do

2568
01:37:27,340 --> 01:37:25,220
with UFOs they wanted to know if you'd

2569
01:37:28,630 --> 01:37:27,350
like to review this book for Tom and I

2570
01:37:30,160 --> 01:37:28,640
said I'd love to read it and yes I'll

2571
01:37:31,840 --> 01:37:30,170
absolutely write an honest review about

2572
01:37:33,940 --> 01:37:31,850
it and so I read the book it's called

2573
01:37:35,440 --> 01:37:33,950
secret machines Volume one chasing

2574
01:37:37,930 --> 01:37:35,450
shadows I read it it's a pretty good

2575
01:37:39,910 --> 01:37:37,940
novel co-authored with aj hartley who's

2576
01:37:41,830 --> 01:37:39,920
actually a professor a Shakespearean

2577
01:37:43,420 --> 01:37:41,840
English professor right here in North

2578
01:37:44,830 --> 01:37:43,430
Carolina and so at some point if he

2579
01:37:45,820 --> 01:37:44,840
makes it to a to an event somewhere

2580
01:37:47,320 --> 01:37:45,830
around here in this region I actually

2581
01:37:48,820 --> 01:37:47,330
hope to go meet AJ because it's more

2582
01:37:50,860 --> 01:37:48,830
likely I'll meet him than Tom DeLonge

2583
01:37:52,630 --> 01:37:50,870
since then there was a disillusion of

2584
01:37:54,670 --> 01:37:52,640
that company and Caleb no longer is

2585
01:37:56,170 --> 01:37:54,680
employed by that company and so I don't

2586
01:37:57,430 --> 01:37:56,180
have any direct association with Tom

2587
01:37:58,990 --> 01:37:57,440
DeLonge but I didn't review the book and

2588
01:38:01,780 --> 01:37:59,000
in the review I wrote for mysterious

2589
01:38:03,250 --> 01:38:01,790
universe org I had said I like this book

2590
01:38:05,440 --> 01:38:03,260
a lot I do have some concerns about

2591
01:38:07,660 --> 01:38:05,450
where the information is coming from and

2592
01:38:09,580 --> 01:38:07,670
I insinuated in that review I wrote that

2593
01:38:11,440 --> 01:38:09,590
I would really like and I put and seen

2594
01:38:13,810 --> 01:38:11,450
you I did it very very discreetly by

2595
01:38:15,130 --> 01:38:13,820
Ahnold putting it in bold text in the

2596
01:38:17,350 --> 01:38:15,140
middle of the article I would really

2597
01:38:23,830 --> 01:38:17,360
like : guys I would really like to talk

2598
01:38:27,100 --> 01:38:23,840
to Tom DeLonge about this did you get a

2599
01:38:29,080 --> 01:38:27,110
call no not at all no I tweeted the

2600
01:38:31,330 --> 01:38:29,090
review at him and I didn't get it

2601
01:38:33,490 --> 01:38:31,340
anything so still waiting to have that

2602
01:38:35,230 --> 01:38:33,500
conversation with him but now let's skip

2603
01:38:38,500 --> 01:38:35,240
ahead to last year's presidential

2604
01:38:40,600 --> 01:38:38,510
election and we did have the the email

2605
01:38:42,370 --> 01:38:40,610
links the email leaks from John Podesta

2606
01:38:44,440 --> 01:38:42,380
the John Podesta said that some of those

2607
01:38:45,940 --> 01:38:44,450
emails according to his ability to

2608
01:38:48,190 --> 01:38:45,950
discern they had been tampered with his

2609
01:38:49,420 --> 01:38:48,200
what he said we know they were leaked by

2610
01:38:51,400 --> 01:38:49,430
WikiLeaks we don't know what the source

2611
01:38:53,170 --> 01:38:51,410
of those leaks were Julian Assange

2612
01:38:55,390 --> 01:38:53,180
maintains that he hasn't worked for any

2613
01:38:57,970 --> 01:38:55,400
state he has he's not been again

2614
01:38:59,980 --> 01:38:57,980
employed by some state like Russia you

2615
01:39:01,450 --> 01:38:59,990
know or other agency he says that's not

2616
01:39:03,070 --> 01:39:01,460
who was behind this and that he said

2617
01:39:04,600 --> 01:39:03,080
that there had been a source that gave

2618
01:39:07,300 --> 01:39:04,610
him these emails now we won't get into

2619
01:39:08,620 --> 01:39:07,310
that whole issue of you know who the

2620
01:39:09,700 --> 01:39:08,630
source might have been how credible some

2621
01:39:11,140 --> 01:39:09,710
of the claims have been all the

2622
01:39:12,820 --> 01:39:11,150
conspiracy theories about that but what

2623
01:39:15,310 --> 01:39:12,830
we know from the actual emails that were

2624
01:39:17,560 --> 01:39:15,320
leaked is that Tom DeLonge had been in

2625
01:39:19,570 --> 01:39:17,570
touch with John Podesta John Podesta has

2626
01:39:20,980 --> 01:39:19,580
maintained a long interest in UFOs going

2627
01:39:23,560 --> 01:39:20,990
all the way back to the first Clinton

2628
01:39:25,390 --> 01:39:23,570
administration John Podesta had also

2629
01:39:27,370 --> 01:39:25,400
apparently agreed to meet with not only

2630
01:39:29,800 --> 01:39:27,380
Tom DeLonge but a Major General William

2631
01:39:31,990 --> 01:39:29,810
McCaslin from wright-patterson Air Force

2632
01:39:33,640 --> 01:39:32,000
Base okay so if we go online and we look

2633
01:39:34,450 --> 01:39:33,650
up McCaslin what we find is that

2634
01:39:36,160 --> 01:39:34,460
McCaslin

2635
01:39:38,500 --> 01:39:36,170
is essentially the head of their science

2636
01:39:40,300 --> 01:39:38,510
division there right patent that is a

2637
01:39:42,070 --> 01:39:40,310
position where he oversees about 11,000

2638
01:39:44,080 --> 01:39:42,080
people who are employees who also deal

2639
01:39:46,720 --> 01:39:44,090
in the sciences as it relates to US Air

2640
01:39:49,030 --> 01:39:46,730
Force operations DeLong had made some

2641
01:39:51,100 --> 01:39:49,040
some references to a quote-unquote

2642
01:39:52,780 --> 01:39:51,110
scientist and he actually said in his

2643
01:39:54,160 --> 01:39:52,790
books and it like in for instance the

2644
01:39:55,209 --> 01:39:54,170
foreword to secret machines that will

2645
01:39:56,740 --> 01:39:55,219
have one guy we'll call him the

2646
01:39:58,750 --> 01:39:56,750
scientist I'm pretty convinced that

2647
01:40:00,910 --> 01:39:58,760
Major William McCaslin was the guy that

2648
01:40:03,310 --> 01:40:00,920
he called the scientist we know that

2649
01:40:04,990 --> 01:40:03,320
that guy also was gonna go with him and

2650
01:40:06,910 --> 01:40:05,000
presumably did go with Tom DeLonge to

2651
01:40:08,260 --> 01:40:06,920
meet with John Podesta in Washington

2652
01:40:11,020 --> 01:40:08,270
sometime during the campaign last year

2653
01:40:13,870 --> 01:40:11,030
now this brings us to my nominee for

2654
01:40:14,560 --> 01:40:13,880
ufologist of 2016 the award goes to drum

2655
01:40:17,979 --> 01:40:14,570
roll please

2656
01:40:19,990 --> 01:40:17,989
Jimmy Kimmel okay you name one other guy

2657
01:40:23,290 --> 01:40:20,000
who has managed to get not one not two

2658
01:40:26,650 --> 01:40:23,300
but several former US Commander in

2659
01:40:28,570 --> 01:40:26,660
Chief's to talk about the u.s. - yes he

2660
01:40:30,700 --> 01:40:28,580
has he's gotten them all on record yes

2661
01:40:33,190 --> 01:40:30,710
but before the nation on a live

2662
01:40:34,840 --> 01:40:33,200
broadcasts to talk about UFOs now

2663
01:40:36,490 --> 01:40:34,850
Hillary Clinton hadn't been elected and

2664
01:40:39,010 --> 01:40:36,500
actually ultimately was not elected but

2665
01:40:40,270 --> 01:40:39,020
while she was in the runnings when she

2666
01:40:41,920 --> 01:40:40,280
appeared on the program they spoke

2667
01:40:44,200 --> 01:40:41,930
frankly about UFOs you remember she said

2668
01:40:45,459 --> 01:40:44,210
well we call him UAP now and she said

2669
01:40:47,979 --> 01:40:45,469
yeah we're gonna reopen this and look

2670
01:40:53,979 --> 01:40:47,989
into it if I get elected well as we know

2671
01:40:55,690 --> 01:40:53,989
area 51 in New Mexico I love that no I

2672
01:40:57,970 --> 01:40:55,700
think she may have been mistaking that

2673
01:40:59,740 --> 01:40:57,980
for Roswell but but the point being is

2674
01:41:01,780 --> 01:40:59,750
that yes the Clinton campaign and John

2675
01:41:04,570 --> 01:41:01,790
Podesta especially we're very interested

2676
01:41:06,040 --> 01:41:04,580
in UFOs it seems enough so that Podesta

2677
01:41:07,600 --> 01:41:06,050
in the middle of a very contentious

2678
01:41:11,170 --> 01:41:07,610
election year was going to meet with a

2679
01:41:12,670 --> 01:41:11,180
former rock star from blink 182 and the

2680
01:41:14,560 --> 01:41:12,680
the chief of the science division at

2681
01:41:16,360 --> 01:41:14,570
wright-patt it seems that that indeed

2682
01:41:17,620 --> 01:41:16,370
actually did happen so we have to say

2683
01:41:19,600 --> 01:41:17,630
that at least some of the sources that

2684
01:41:21,430 --> 01:41:19,610
DeLong claims he has which he hadn't

2685
01:41:22,690 --> 01:41:21,440
named publicly before that they

2686
01:41:25,150 --> 01:41:22,700
absolutely are legitimate now the

2687
01:41:25,720 --> 01:41:25,160
question is is DeLong the latest Paul

2688
01:41:27,940 --> 01:41:25,730
bennewitz

2689
01:41:29,830 --> 01:41:27,950
is he being controlled or manipulated in

2690
01:41:31,420 --> 01:41:29,840
some way similar to these other

2691
01:41:33,370 --> 01:41:31,430
instances where there is historical

2692
01:41:35,470 --> 01:41:33,380
precedent like we said earlier for the

2693
01:41:37,450 --> 01:41:35,480
manipulation of and the ceding of bad

2694
01:41:39,370 --> 01:41:37,460
information among the civilian populace

2695
01:41:40,900 --> 01:41:39,380
Tom DeLonge is not a person who holds

2696
01:41:43,390 --> 01:41:40,910
any kind of a secret clearance as far as

2697
01:41:44,440 --> 01:41:43,400
I know he has not at any time to my

2698
01:41:46,570 --> 01:41:44,450
knowledge served in the US government

2699
01:41:47,950 --> 01:41:46,580
and does not have any other way that he

2700
01:41:49,959 --> 01:41:47,960
could receive such information

2701
01:41:51,400 --> 01:41:49,969
apart from his alleged associations some

2702
01:41:52,959 --> 01:41:51,410
of which have now been verified I think

2703
01:41:54,250 --> 01:41:52,969
with these people in various

2704
01:41:55,780 --> 01:41:54,260
intelligence agencies and other

2705
01:41:57,280 --> 01:41:55,790
divisions of governments the question is

2706
01:41:58,840 --> 01:41:57,290
how much of the information he's been

2707
01:42:01,270 --> 01:41:58,850
given is good what information has he

2708
01:42:03,400 --> 01:42:01,280
been given with the forthcoming projects

2709
01:42:05,260 --> 01:42:03,410
and his to the Stars media we may find

2710
01:42:07,420 --> 01:42:05,270
out about some of that but I definitely

2711
01:42:09,300 --> 01:42:07,430
definitely have questions based on the

2712
01:42:15,610 --> 01:42:09,310
historical precedent for similar things

2713
01:42:19,150 --> 01:42:15,620
that have happened in the past at the

2714
01:42:20,950 --> 01:42:19,160
table there in the banquet hall when

2715
01:42:23,680 --> 01:42:20,960
they they played the you know they

2716
01:42:26,709 --> 01:42:23,690
awarded the UFO Congress awarded him and

2717
01:42:28,630 --> 01:42:26,719
a researcher of the year and he couldn't

2718
01:42:31,570 --> 01:42:28,640
attend but he sent a an acceptance

2719
01:42:34,600 --> 01:42:31,580
speech and one particularly from that

2720
01:42:37,150 --> 01:42:34,610
speech really kind of bothered me and

2721
01:42:44,500 --> 01:42:37,160
that was I've read all the UFO books so

2722
01:42:46,810 --> 01:42:44,510
I know everything about the subject and

2723
01:42:50,890 --> 01:42:46,820
to me to have the hubris and the

2724
01:42:54,780 --> 01:42:50,900
temerity to make such a bit of a light

2725
01:42:57,479 --> 01:42:54,790
on on the guy's ego and and and does

2726
01:43:00,370 --> 01:42:57,489
indicate to me that I think he's got

2727
01:43:03,550 --> 01:43:00,380
some some really interesting ideas but

2728
01:43:07,930 --> 01:43:03,560
they're all in in in the realm of trying

2729
01:43:09,850 --> 01:43:07,940
to monetize the ideas I don't think that

2730
01:43:12,310 --> 01:43:09,860
uh he'd be the last person in the world

2731
01:43:14,200 --> 01:43:12,320
I would suspect that the the government

2732
01:43:17,470 --> 01:43:14,210
would start to divulge classified

2733
01:43:21,130 --> 01:43:17,480
information to and start doing a you

2734
01:43:22,510 --> 01:43:21,140
know a soft disclosure process with it

2735
01:43:24,310 --> 01:43:22,520
just doesn't make any sense to me at all

2736
01:43:28,330 --> 01:43:24,320
I'll tell you what I'll name one book

2737
01:43:31,510 --> 01:43:28,340
you could not possibly have read UFO 96

2738
01:43:35,020 --> 01:43:31,520
published by grey Barker it was a sort

2739
01:43:37,090 --> 01:43:35,030
of kind of wacky satirical piece that

2740
01:43:39,520 --> 01:43:37,100
reflected a part of grey Barker's

2741
01:43:43,810 --> 01:43:39,530
personality that the public didn't

2742
01:43:47,350 --> 01:43:43,820
always get to see not at all I guarantee

2743
01:43:50,590 --> 01:43:47,360
you he never read that book and neither

2744
01:43:52,420 --> 01:43:50,600
of you did either actually I wrote the

2745
01:43:53,920 --> 01:43:52,430
foreword of it I wrote the foreword to

2746
01:43:57,140 --> 01:43:53,930
the new edition I don't even think you

2747
01:44:01,700 --> 01:43:57,150
were alive when that book was printed

2748
01:44:04,040 --> 01:44:01,710
I remember pretty I was a great boss

2749
01:44:05,630 --> 01:44:04,050
there's houseless I was a great Barker's

2750
01:44:10,700 --> 01:44:05,640
house when he ran off with copies on

2751
01:44:14,740 --> 01:44:10,710
this offset machine in the 60s so there

2752
01:44:17,180 --> 01:44:14,750
as just one example inside the saucers

2753
01:44:22,760 --> 01:44:17,190
1965 from Tim Buckley it's another one

2754
01:44:25,790 --> 01:44:22,770
he didn't read no probably I've got a

2755
01:44:29,180 --> 01:44:25,800
I've got a pre-publication copy of

2756
01:44:33,370 --> 01:44:29,190
underground bases and tunnels with the

2757
01:44:36,920 --> 01:44:33,380
spiral binding that I'm pretty proud of

2758
01:44:38,180 --> 01:44:36,930
signed by solder well at the bottom of

2759
01:44:39,650 --> 01:44:38,190
the you know at the end of the day I

2760
01:44:41,090 --> 01:44:39,660
think we could probably agree that there

2761
01:44:45,380 --> 01:44:41,100
are plenty of books that Tom DeLonge has

2762
01:44:46,730 --> 01:44:45,390
not read on the UFO subject plenty of

2763
01:44:49,460 --> 01:44:46,740
things about the UFO subject that he

2764
01:44:51,770 --> 01:44:49,470
doesn't know in fact is there's more

2765
01:44:55,220 --> 01:44:51,780
stuff about UFOs that I've forgotten

2766
01:44:56,900 --> 01:44:55,230
then he probably knows I would agree you

2767
01:44:59,540 --> 01:44:56,910
know let's get off Tom DeLonge he does

2768
01:45:01,010 --> 01:44:59,550
not deserve the publicity well you

2769
01:45:03,980 --> 01:45:01,020
brought up WikiLeaks and I thought hey

2770
01:45:05,780 --> 01:45:03,990
what a perfect dovetail to uh to go into

2771
01:45:07,400 --> 01:45:05,790
that / - I didn't bring up WikiLeaks

2772
01:45:09,310 --> 01:45:07,410
actually I brought up the Hillary

2773
01:45:12,370 --> 01:45:09,320
Clinton email scandal which was not

2774
01:45:14,660 --> 01:45:12,380
necessarily WikiLeaks but whatever it is

2775
01:45:20,880 --> 01:45:14,670
we've got more to come with Jean Chris

2776
01:45:31,660 --> 01:45:28,069
[Music]

2777
01:45:36,469 --> 01:45:31,670
thank you for listening to GCS

2778
01:45:43,020 --> 01:45:39,719
we also have swag you know we have all

2779
01:45:43,830 --> 01:45:43,030
these exclusive para cast things that

2780
01:45:45,779 --> 01:45:43,840
you can buy

2781
01:45:48,599 --> 01:45:45,789
we've got like I guess 60 or so

2782
01:45:52,199 --> 01:45:48,609
different items and entails t-shirts

2783
01:45:55,500 --> 01:45:52,209
sleeves for notebook computers iPad

2784
01:45:57,810 --> 01:45:55,510
cases mouse pads the para cast jumbo

2785
01:45:59,669 --> 01:45:57,820
tote bag all sorts of t-shirts and

2786
01:46:02,909 --> 01:45:59,679
jackets and stuff like that for men and

2787
01:46:05,189 --> 01:46:02,919
women we have a para cast aluminum water

2788
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bottle all the stuff you go to steward

2789
01:46:11,969 --> 01:46:08,709
dot ^ cast comm store dot the para cast

2790
01:46:14,520 --> 01:46:11,979
com what makes special is that the items

2791
01:46:17,069 --> 01:46:14,530
are the best quality of great t-shirts

2792
01:46:18,449 --> 01:46:17,079
fabrics and they have our official logo

2793
01:46:21,359 --> 01:46:18,459
on them that's what makes them special

2794
01:46:24,089 --> 01:46:21,369
multiple sizes and colors we even have

2795
01:46:26,609 --> 01:46:24,099
stuff for children stuff for women's

2796
01:46:29,250 --> 01:46:26,619
stuff for men we have all sorts of sizes

2797
01:46:31,859 --> 01:46:29,260
like small up 2x large a lot good stuff

2798
01:46:35,069 --> 01:46:31,869
that's the swag from the para cast you

2799
01:46:39,750 --> 01:46:35,079
go to steward dot ^ cast comm stop by

2800
01:46:41,580 --> 01:46:39,760
and take a shopping tour you have an

2801
01:46:43,979 --> 01:46:41,590
experienced yogurt until you've tried a

2802
01:46:46,139 --> 01:46:43,989
mossy embodying health and flavor in a

2803
01:46:48,449 --> 01:46:46,149
true whole milk green fed dairy beverage

2804
01:46:50,339 --> 01:46:48,459
every sip pays homage to our old-world

2805
01:46:52,109 --> 01:46:50,349
cows and the ancient culturing methods

2806
01:46:54,209 --> 01:46:52,119
their milk benefits from with over 30

2807
01:46:56,609 --> 01:46:54,219
probiotics on Mossy's undeniably

2808
01:46:58,379 --> 01:46:56,619
nutritious refined cultured sensation

2809
01:47:01,049 --> 01:46:58,389
bolsters your health and awakens your

2810
01:47:02,520 --> 01:47:01,059
passion for dairy oh ma c so good and

2811
01:47:04,259 --> 01:47:02,530
you need to try and contact your

2812
01:47:06,479 --> 01:47:04,269
youngevity distributor or call eight

2813
01:47:09,750 --> 01:47:06,489
seven seven eight seven eight forty 203

2814
01:47:11,729 --> 01:47:09,760
or go to GCN team comm north korea

2815
01:47:13,349 --> 01:47:11,739
openly threatens the US and launches a

2816
01:47:15,359 --> 01:47:13,359
new missile every other week their

2817
01:47:17,279 --> 01:47:15,369
warhead of choice electromagnetic pulse

2818
01:47:18,989 --> 01:47:17,289
such an event would the u.s.

2819
01:47:20,369 --> 01:47:18,999
power grid for years and leave millions

2820
01:47:22,859 --> 01:47:20,379
in the dark are you ready

2821
01:47:24,899 --> 01:47:22,869
you can be with a soul arc EMP hardened

2822
01:47:25,500 --> 01:47:24,909
solar generator soul arc works day in

2823
01:47:27,210 --> 01:47:25,510
and day out

2824
01:47:28,830 --> 01:47:27,220
to keep your essentials protected you

2825
01:47:30,570 --> 01:47:28,840
can have peace of mind knowing your

2826
01:47:33,270 --> 01:47:30,580
power will be there when you most need

2827
01:47:35,670 --> 01:47:33,280
it visit portable solar LLC comm to see

2828
01:47:41,340 --> 01:47:35,680
EMP testing that's portable solar LLC

2829
01:47:41,350 --> 01:47:45,560
[Applause]

2830
01:47:53,600 --> 01:47:49,260
welcome back to the Peres cast the gold

2831
01:48:02,220 --> 01:47:53,610
standard of paranormal radio and now

2832
01:48:03,660 --> 01:48:02,230
here's Jean Steinberg alright we only

2833
01:48:06,060 --> 01:48:03,670
have a few segments left here so I

2834
01:48:10,020 --> 01:48:06,070
wanted to bring this up mica gave me a

2835
01:48:12,720 --> 01:48:10,030
bunch of ideas and questions to ask and

2836
01:48:14,520 --> 01:48:12,730
this one occurred to me for reasons

2837
01:48:16,860 --> 01:48:14,530
Chris will know in a moment how does

2838
01:48:21,090 --> 01:48:16,870
science help prove that there may have

2839
01:48:23,550 --> 01:48:21,100
been nuclear scale events in the ancient

2840
01:48:26,160 --> 01:48:23,560
past and when you ask that question

2841
01:48:29,340 --> 01:48:26,170
Micah I'm thinking of dr. John

2842
01:48:32,460 --> 01:48:29,350
Brandenburg and his discussions of a

2843
01:48:35,370 --> 01:48:32,470
possible nuclear war or nuclear

2844
01:48:37,800 --> 01:48:35,380
explosions on Mars you know that's a

2845
01:48:39,990 --> 01:48:37,810
really interesting subject right there

2846
01:48:42,330 --> 01:48:40,000
years and years ago I mean like when I

2847
01:48:43,740 --> 01:48:42,340
was still a teenager I was I'm only 34

2848
01:48:46,410 --> 01:48:43,750
years old right now but I mean back in

2849
01:48:48,840 --> 01:48:46,420
the day we all had America Online in our

2850
01:48:50,540 --> 01:48:48,850
homes and dial-up you know internet one

2851
01:48:54,060 --> 01:48:50,550
of my favorite things to study were

2852
01:48:56,130 --> 01:48:54,070
interpretive texts on the Vedas the

2853
01:48:58,170 --> 01:48:56,140
Hindu epics the Ramayana the Rig Veda

2854
01:49:01,260 --> 01:48:58,180
and the Mahabharata yes with these I

2855
01:49:03,420 --> 01:49:01,270
would read these interpretive texts and

2856
01:49:05,880 --> 01:49:03,430
websites on these and some of the

2857
01:49:07,800 --> 01:49:05,890
interpretations of certain events as

2858
01:49:09,270 --> 01:49:07,810
described in the Hindu epics were

2859
01:49:11,460 --> 01:49:09,280
fascinating to me because there was this

2860
01:49:13,290 --> 01:49:11,470
what was called the flame of Indra or

2861
01:49:14,640 --> 01:49:13,300
the weapon of Indra the iron Thunderbolt

2862
01:49:16,590 --> 01:49:14,650
there are different names that have been

2863
01:49:18,240 --> 01:49:16,600
given to it in various translations and

2864
01:49:20,220 --> 01:49:18,250
interpretations but what we're

2865
01:49:21,990 --> 01:49:20,230
essentially describing is a weapon or

2866
01:49:22,440 --> 01:49:22,000
something that it's either a weapon or

2867
01:49:24,810 --> 01:49:22,450
an event

2868
01:49:26,760 --> 01:49:24,820
okay described in the Hindu mythology

2869
01:49:27,690 --> 01:49:26,770
and it describes something that falls

2870
01:49:29,520 --> 01:49:27,700
from the heavens and then there's a

2871
01:49:30,210 --> 01:49:29,530
pillar of smoke that rises that seen for

2872
01:49:31,950 --> 01:49:30,220
miles and miles

2873
01:49:34,170 --> 01:49:31,960
he said that when this happened birds

2874
01:49:36,570 --> 01:49:34,180
fell from the sky from the resulting

2875
01:49:37,740 --> 01:49:36,580
effect if we don't want to just outright

2876
01:49:39,000 --> 01:49:37,750
call it the blast but many have

2877
01:49:40,980 --> 01:49:39,010
insinuated just cutting to

2878
01:49:42,120 --> 01:49:40,990
punchline here many have said it sounds

2879
01:49:44,850 --> 01:49:42,130
an awful lot like there was some sort of

2880
01:49:46,920 --> 01:49:44,860
a nuclear weapon now I'm very careful

2881
01:49:48,720 --> 01:49:46,930
about taking these holy scripts in these

2882
01:49:51,420 --> 01:49:48,730
ancient texts and things like this and

2883
01:49:53,850 --> 01:49:51,430
interpreting them as being literal

2884
01:49:55,560 --> 01:49:53,860
interpretation of actual events here's a

2885
01:49:56,880 --> 01:49:55,570
great example of an instance where I

2886
01:49:59,100 --> 01:49:56,890
think that has happened and people have

2887
01:50:01,560 --> 01:49:59,110
just run wild with it and although it

2888
01:50:03,390 --> 01:50:01,570
doesn't involve an ancient nuclear event

2889
01:50:04,830 --> 01:50:03,400
you're gonna see why this is relevant

2890
01:50:07,080 --> 01:50:04,840
because it comes back around to ancient

2891
01:50:08,280 --> 01:50:07,090
cataclysms and the like which many

2892
01:50:11,160 --> 01:50:08,290
associate with such events

2893
01:50:13,320 --> 01:50:11,170
okay Plato talked about Atlantis Plato

2894
01:50:16,440 --> 01:50:13,330
talked about in the documents Critias

2895
01:50:18,930 --> 01:50:16,450
and Timaeus he talked about this war

2896
01:50:21,270 --> 01:50:18,940
between those who hailed from beyond the

2897
01:50:23,160 --> 01:50:21,280
pillars of Herakles you know now it's

2898
01:50:25,110 --> 01:50:23,170
pretty evident to me based on some

2899
01:50:28,140 --> 01:50:25,120
contextual clues that the whole

2900
01:50:29,370 --> 01:50:28,150
discussion of Atlantis by Plato and last

2901
01:50:31,470 --> 01:50:29,380
night Rick he was a philosopher not a

2902
01:50:34,740 --> 01:50:31,480
historian the entire discussion about

2903
01:50:36,930 --> 01:50:34,750
Atlantis was allegorical okay as were

2904
01:50:39,300 --> 01:50:36,940
many of his dialogues it was intended to

2905
01:50:40,800 --> 01:50:39,310
be pure allegory none of his students

2906
01:50:42,840 --> 01:50:40,810
actually believed at the time that he

2907
01:50:44,550 --> 01:50:42,850
was literally talking about an actual

2908
01:50:45,990 --> 01:50:44,560
ancient lost civilization that sank

2909
01:50:47,970 --> 01:50:46,000
beneath the waters of the Atlantic but

2910
01:50:49,710 --> 01:50:47,980
some of the students of Plato's students

2911
01:50:51,300 --> 01:50:49,720
did begin to make that case and then

2912
01:50:54,030 --> 01:50:51,310
some of the later Greek historians of

2913
01:50:55,560 --> 01:50:54,040
antiquity also it became of the mind

2914
01:50:57,930 --> 01:50:55,570
that they endorsed the idea of a literal

2915
01:50:59,580 --> 01:50:57,940
Atlantis that may have existed but again

2916
01:51:02,040 --> 01:50:59,590
the scholarly interpretation to this day

2917
01:51:03,720 --> 01:51:02,050
is that it was indeed a speculative kind

2918
01:51:06,390 --> 01:51:03,730
of a thing it was actually not even

2919
01:51:09,000 --> 01:51:06,400
speculative it was purely allegorical he

2920
01:51:10,530 --> 01:51:09,010
was trying to tell a fantastic tale so

2921
01:51:11,970 --> 01:51:10,540
as to make political commentary on

2922
01:51:13,890 --> 01:51:11,980
things actually occurring in Greece at

2923
01:51:15,210 --> 01:51:13,900
that time further evidence of this is

2924
01:51:16,410 --> 01:51:15,220
the fact that of course in that document

2925
01:51:18,180 --> 01:51:16,420
the Timaeus he may have been referring

2926
01:51:20,160 --> 01:51:18,190
to was his uncle that was in fact his

2927
01:51:21,720 --> 01:51:20,170
his uncle's name but people have taken

2928
01:51:23,430 --> 01:51:21,730
that in have run with that in this

2929
01:51:24,660 --> 01:51:23,440
concept of an antediluvian world you

2930
01:51:26,790 --> 01:51:24,670
know something that existed before the

2931
01:51:28,200 --> 01:51:26,800
great flood some advanced technology or

2932
01:51:29,700 --> 01:51:28,210
civilization that once existed is

2933
01:51:31,140 --> 01:51:29,710
something that has been preeminent in

2934
01:51:32,520 --> 01:51:31,150
the minds of the ancient astronaut

2935
01:51:33,900 --> 01:51:32,530
theorists and the ancient mysteries

2936
01:51:35,670 --> 01:51:33,910
theorists and even people who don't

2937
01:51:38,160 --> 01:51:35,680
endorse the ancient astronaut thing guys

2938
01:51:40,860 --> 01:51:38,170
keep in mind I just spent four last week

2939
01:51:43,410 --> 01:51:40,870
on a boat trying to outrun hurricane

2940
01:51:45,030 --> 01:51:43,420
Jose in the North Atlantic and Erich von

2941
01:51:47,820 --> 01:51:45,040
Daniken was on that boat with me for

2942
01:51:49,170 --> 01:51:47,830
part of that time it was Mary she wasn't

2943
01:51:50,799 --> 01:51:49,180
on this one knows it was Nick Redfern

2944
01:51:52,419 --> 01:51:50,809
and von daniken denying

2945
01:51:54,549 --> 01:51:52,429
okay you're doing another one with

2946
01:51:55,720 --> 01:51:54,559
rosemary yeah rosemary our good friend

2947
01:51:57,250 --> 01:51:55,730
is gonna be on the one I'm doing in

2948
01:51:58,540 --> 01:51:57,260
November and we can we can chat about

2949
01:52:00,189 --> 01:51:58,550
that in a bit that's the mysteries

2950
01:52:02,709 --> 01:52:00,199
cruise but you know the cool thing about

2951
01:52:03,970 --> 01:52:02,719
von Daniken is he can sit down with me

2952
01:52:05,890 --> 01:52:03,980
and be smoking a cigarette he and

2953
01:52:07,209 --> 01:52:05,900
hormone his assistant now I love her

2954
01:52:08,979 --> 01:52:07,219
moan he's a dear friend of mine

2955
01:52:10,510 --> 01:52:08,989
those guys definitely do think aliens

2956
01:52:12,490 --> 01:52:10,520
have something to do with this ancient

2957
01:52:13,899 --> 01:52:12,500
mystery stuff I don't but when I tell

2958
01:52:15,279 --> 01:52:13,909
them I don't they say that's good that's

2959
01:52:17,500 --> 01:52:15,289
good we want more skeptics and more

2960
01:52:19,029 --> 01:52:17,510
scientists who will work with us I don't

2961
01:52:21,040 --> 01:52:19,039
get the same reception from the skeptics

2962
01:52:22,419 --> 01:52:21,050
sadly because even though I you guys can

2963
01:52:24,279 --> 01:52:22,429
tell I'm pretty skeptical about all this

2964
01:52:26,950 --> 01:52:24,289
stuff I mean fundamentally to my core

2965
01:52:28,569 --> 01:52:26,960
and I think you two are also but they

2966
01:52:30,279 --> 01:52:28,579
would still consider us fringe crazies

2967
01:52:32,649 --> 01:52:30,289
anyway coming back to ancient mysteries

2968
01:52:34,149 --> 01:52:32,659
this idea of nuclear events how can

2969
01:52:34,660 --> 01:52:34,159
science help us understand this stuff

2970
01:52:36,339 --> 01:52:34,670
better

2971
01:52:37,990 --> 01:52:36,349
well again I see a lot of people who

2972
01:52:38,890 --> 01:52:38,000
look at these things these incidents

2973
01:52:40,299 --> 01:52:38,900
that may have occurred in the ancient

2974
01:52:42,580 --> 01:52:40,309
past some of which we do have scientific

2975
01:52:43,870 --> 01:52:42,590
evidence for and guys like Brandenburg

2976
01:52:45,339 --> 01:52:43,880
try to look at that and what may have

2977
01:52:47,680 --> 01:52:45,349
happened off-planet and say see ancient

2978
01:52:49,080 --> 01:52:47,690
nuclear wars on those planets I think a

2979
01:52:50,979 --> 01:52:49,090
lot of that kind of stems from that

2980
01:52:52,689 --> 01:52:50,989
eschatological outlet many of us had

2981
01:52:53,740 --> 01:52:52,699
during the Cold War Carl Sagan always

2982
01:52:56,290 --> 01:52:53,750
talking about mutually assured

2983
01:52:58,540 --> 01:52:56,300
self-destruction I think that it's kind

2984
01:52:59,649 --> 01:52:58,550
of this weird outgrowth from that where

2985
01:53:01,479 --> 01:52:59,659
we're so concerned about what could

2986
01:53:03,010 --> 01:53:01,489
happen to earth that some people go so

2987
01:53:04,540 --> 01:53:03,020
far as to say that it's already happened

2988
01:53:07,029 --> 01:53:04,550
on other worlds and therefore the future

2989
01:53:08,379 --> 01:53:07,039
message to humankind is see what

2990
01:53:09,609 --> 01:53:08,389
happened there we don't want it to

2991
01:53:11,620 --> 01:53:09,619
happen here the ancient Martian

2992
01:53:13,299 --> 01:53:11,630
civilization destroyed themselves we're

2993
01:53:14,709 --> 01:53:13,309
in danger of doing the same thing - and

2994
01:53:16,000 --> 01:53:14,719
it could happen any day with North Korea

2995
01:53:17,709 --> 01:53:16,010
with the volatility that we're seeing

2996
01:53:19,600 --> 01:53:17,719
right now is there really evidence of

2997
01:53:21,370 --> 01:53:19,610
ancient nuclear events I would say yes

2998
01:53:24,220 --> 01:53:21,380
is there evidence that there were

2999
01:53:26,319 --> 01:53:24,230
nuclear events like nuclear weapons and

3000
01:53:28,510 --> 01:53:26,329
things used by advanced civilizations no

3001
01:53:30,490 --> 01:53:28,520
we're talking about naturally occurring

3002
01:53:32,649 --> 01:53:30,500
nuclear scale events probably as a

3003
01:53:35,350 --> 01:53:32,659
result of asteroid or comet Airi impacts

3004
01:53:36,790 --> 01:53:35,360
or possibly that combined with something

3005
01:53:38,979 --> 01:53:36,800
along the lines of a supernova flare

3006
01:53:41,229 --> 01:53:38,989
some of the research for instance that's

3007
01:53:42,459 --> 01:53:41,239
appeared recently that suggests this is

3008
01:53:44,260 --> 01:53:42,469
a paper that appeared in the journal

3009
01:53:45,879 --> 01:53:44,270
Nature that was co-authored by a couple

3010
01:53:47,770 --> 01:53:45,889
of colleagues of mine dr. Albert

3011
01:53:50,080 --> 01:53:47,780
Goodyear from the University of South

3012
01:53:51,669 --> 01:53:50,090
Carolina at Columbia another fellow who

3013
01:53:53,529 --> 01:53:51,679
I have not met or spoken with yet but my

3014
01:53:55,450 --> 01:53:53,539
colleagues are colleagues of his is dr.

3015
01:53:58,029 --> 01:53:55,460
Chris Moore real scientist real

3016
01:53:59,770 --> 01:53:58,039
archeologists people that I respect they

3017
01:54:02,140 --> 01:53:59,780
were co-authors along with Allen West on

3018
01:54:04,299 --> 01:54:02,150
this paper which talks about a

3019
01:54:04,820 --> 01:54:04,309
widespread platinum anomaly that has

3020
01:54:07,010 --> 01:54:04,830
occurred

3021
01:54:09,440 --> 01:54:07,020
the geological strata that coincides

3022
01:54:11,420 --> 01:54:09,450
with the Younger Dryas layer okay

3023
01:54:13,250 --> 01:54:11,430
Younger Dryas referencing essentially

3024
01:54:14,660 --> 01:54:13,260
two little ice age that we re-entered

3025
01:54:16,580 --> 01:54:14,670
after we were coming out of the last ice

3026
01:54:19,040 --> 01:54:16,590
age as we were heading into the Holocene

3027
01:54:20,420 --> 01:54:19,050
temperatures globally begin to warm all

3028
01:54:21,770 --> 01:54:20,430
of a sudden there's a huge spike in

3029
01:54:23,180 --> 01:54:21,780
temperatures where it gets really warm

3030
01:54:26,750 --> 01:54:23,190
really quick and then we go back into an

3031
01:54:27,980 --> 01:54:26,760
ice age and some researchers speculate

3032
01:54:29,990 --> 01:54:27,990
that there was something that caused

3033
01:54:32,300 --> 01:54:30,000
that heat spike and then the cold trend

3034
01:54:34,250 --> 01:54:32,310
that followed what we certainly cannot

3035
01:54:36,140 --> 01:54:34,260
ignore is that this platinum anomaly

3036
01:54:37,910 --> 01:54:36,150
exists and that it coincides with that

3037
01:54:40,490 --> 01:54:37,920
at the beginning the onset of that

3038
01:54:42,590 --> 01:54:40,500
dryness and where do we find that this

3039
01:54:46,010 --> 01:54:42,600
has occurred in the past well we see a

3040
01:54:47,930 --> 01:54:46,020
similar rare earth element widespread in

3041
01:54:49,370 --> 01:54:47,940
geological strata coinciding with the

3042
01:54:51,200 --> 01:54:49,380
impact that killed the dinosaurs so

3043
01:54:54,110 --> 01:54:51,210
scientists are warming up to the idea

3044
01:54:55,430 --> 01:54:54,120
more and more that in likelihood this

3045
01:54:57,350 --> 01:54:55,440
the presence of these rare earth

3046
01:54:58,760 --> 01:54:57,360
elements actually do show that there

3047
01:55:00,920 --> 01:54:58,770
have been cataclysms that occurred in

3048
01:55:02,090 --> 01:55:00,930
the past and as strange as it seems I

3049
01:55:03,650 --> 01:55:02,100
mean even with that evidence the

3050
01:55:06,140 --> 01:55:03,660
scientific community doesn't really like

3051
01:55:07,670 --> 01:55:06,150
the idea of the impact hypothesis mica

3052
01:55:09,860 --> 01:55:07,680
isn't there evidence of a naturally

3053
01:55:12,860 --> 01:55:09,870
occurring chain reaction that occurred

3054
01:55:15,430 --> 01:55:12,870
in uranium deposits in Africa let's say

3055
01:55:18,560 --> 01:55:15,440
nameö just to try to make a bad joke

3056
01:55:22,970 --> 01:55:18,570
okay I seem to remember John Brandenburg

3057
01:55:26,450 --> 01:55:22,980
in his books about I'm not exactly sure

3058
01:55:28,730 --> 01:55:26,460
where in Africa it occurred maybe I

3059
01:55:32,930 --> 01:55:28,740
think so I was an a Korean chain

3060
01:55:37,190 --> 01:55:32,940
reaction of uranium and so we did have

3061
01:55:40,280 --> 01:55:37,200
some sort of naturally occurring I guess

3062
01:55:43,220 --> 01:55:40,290
we knew I act of event if you will I you

3063
01:55:45,200 --> 01:55:43,230
know I'd done all the details of how

3064
01:55:47,750 --> 01:55:45,210
could could take place all the science

3065
01:55:52,660 --> 01:55:47,760
behind it I'm not sure but I do seem to

3066
01:55:56,300 --> 01:55:52,670
recall that it's a fairly well accepted

3067
01:55:58,820 --> 01:55:56,310
kind of incidence in the historical

3068
01:56:00,620 --> 01:55:58,830
record yeah no I don't think it has

3069
01:56:04,040 --> 01:56:00,630
anything with the KT boundary KT

3070
01:56:05,330 --> 01:56:04,050
boundary and you know the iridium that

3071
01:56:08,330 --> 01:56:05,340
they've discovered at the end of the

3072
01:56:10,340 --> 01:56:08,340
Cretaceous for instance right but but we

3073
01:56:13,190 --> 01:56:10,350
do know that that that nature can

3074
01:56:15,920 --> 01:56:13,200
undergo some sort of you know

3075
01:56:17,300 --> 01:56:15,930
radioactive chain reaction absolutely

3076
01:56:18,540 --> 01:56:17,310
really quickly he's talking about think

3077
01:56:20,910 --> 01:56:18,550
about the Oklahoman's

3078
01:56:23,580 --> 01:56:20,920
this was a situation where there was a

3079
01:56:25,770 --> 01:56:23,590
uranium deposit that was I think encased

3080
01:56:28,229 --> 01:56:25,780
in a granite layer which fed by natural

3081
01:56:30,270 --> 01:56:28,239
water from nearby actually presented

3082
01:56:31,799 --> 01:56:30,280
essentially a cooling and containment

3083
01:56:34,560 --> 01:56:31,809
facility that some have likened to a

3084
01:56:36,209 --> 01:56:34,570
natural nuclear reactor but now again

3085
01:56:37,979 --> 01:56:36,219
that's a different thing from some sort

3086
01:56:39,780 --> 01:56:37,989
of an extraterrestrial impact creating

3087
01:56:41,459 --> 01:56:39,790
you know a boundary where we find this

3088
01:56:42,810 --> 01:56:41,469
rare earth element like iridium which is

3089
01:56:44,490 --> 01:56:42,820
often reported or platinum like the

3090
01:56:45,660 --> 01:56:44,500
nature article from earlier but yeah

3091
01:56:47,220 --> 01:56:45,670
you're absolutely right I mean the idea

3092
01:56:48,899 --> 01:56:47,230
of a natural nuclear reactor that's

3093
01:56:49,919 --> 01:56:48,909
accepted science that indeed this could

3094
01:56:51,899 --> 01:56:49,929
hypothetically in the right

3095
01:56:53,580 --> 01:56:51,909
circumstances occur deep within the

3096
01:56:55,950 --> 01:56:53,590
earth and maybe has occurred a few times

3097
01:56:58,620 --> 01:56:55,960
in the past once again you will hear

3098
01:57:00,870 --> 01:56:58,630
more of Micah Hanks on this week's

3099
01:57:03,899 --> 01:57:00,880
episode of the after the power cast

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to learn more about a premium package go

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to plus dot the parent cast com once

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again that's plus dot the parent cast

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that's the power mall calm

3207
02:01:43,330 --> 02:01:41,120
mana is the Powerball calm we'd like to

3208
02:01:45,820 --> 02:01:43,340
hear from you if you have a comment or

3209
02:01:48,700 --> 02:01:45,830
question about the para cast sent it to

3210
02:01:52,090 --> 02:01:48,710
news at the para cast com

3211
02:01:54,130 --> 02:01:52,100
that's news at the para cast calm and

3212
02:01:57,310 --> 02:01:54,140
don't forget to visit our famous para

3213
02:02:01,750 --> 02:01:57,320
cast community forums at forum dot the

3214
02:02:04,360 --> 02:02:01,760
para cast calm so the point being here

3215
02:02:07,420 --> 02:02:04,370
is it's far more sensational and sells

3216
02:02:10,750 --> 02:02:07,430
more books to say that some nuclear

3217
02:02:13,240 --> 02:02:10,760
event had to be artificially generated

3218
02:02:16,270 --> 02:02:13,250
to just say it's the result of natural

3219
02:02:17,770 --> 02:02:16,280
forces at work there is a city in India

3220
02:02:20,310 --> 02:02:17,780
that I know David Childress has

3221
02:02:23,590 --> 02:02:20,320
mentioned I think Veronica has mentioned

3222
02:02:25,300 --> 02:02:23,600
where there's features the sand that's

3223
02:02:27,400 --> 02:02:25,310
been fused into class you have the

3224
02:02:30,430 --> 02:02:27,410
Libyan glass fields which may have been

3225
02:02:32,500 --> 02:02:30,440
from an impact in the in the past where

3226
02:02:34,420 --> 02:02:32,510
you know some sort of object obviously

3227
02:02:36,610 --> 02:02:34,430
generated incredible amounts of heat you

3228
02:02:39,730 --> 02:02:36,620
can find tektites around the here in

3229
02:02:42,780 --> 02:02:39,740
Arizona around the meteor crater you can

3230
02:02:46,740 --> 02:02:42,790
find a fuse material that uh was

3231
02:02:49,150 --> 02:02:46,750
obviously superheated by the impact but

3232
02:02:51,240 --> 02:02:49,160
to have something planetary you know

3233
02:02:54,910 --> 02:02:51,250
that you can find evidence pretty much

3234
02:02:59,260 --> 02:02:54,920
everywhere obviously would be indication

3235
02:03:01,750 --> 02:02:59,270
of a huge catastrophic event nuclear

3236
02:03:05,680 --> 02:03:01,760
winter type event that five point

3237
02:03:07,420 --> 02:03:05,690
something million years ago so uh but

3238
02:03:09,040 --> 02:03:07,430
but but bringing it back to the point

3239
02:03:09,520 --> 02:03:09,050
that you were making Myka go ahead and

3240
02:03:11,590 --> 02:03:09,530
continue

3241
02:03:13,660 --> 02:03:11,600
oh yeah and I'll add to that to Chris I

3242
02:03:15,160 --> 02:03:13,670
think the the Indian sites actually in

3243
02:03:17,350 --> 02:03:15,170
modern-day Pakistan but once probably

3244
02:03:18,820 --> 02:03:17,360
part of the ancient Hindu Empire

3245
02:03:20,260 --> 02:03:18,830
we were probably talking about Harappa

3246
02:03:23,200 --> 02:03:20,270
and mohenjo-daro the City of the Dead

3247
02:03:26,110 --> 02:03:23,210
they found some of this you know the the

3248
02:03:28,030 --> 02:03:26,120
actual vitrification there interestingly

3249
02:03:30,610 --> 02:03:28,040
in parts of Europe though we've also

3250
02:03:32,290 --> 02:03:30,620
found the evidence of ancient hill forts

3251
02:03:34,030 --> 02:03:32,300
where the stones were fused together

3252
02:03:36,310 --> 02:03:34,040
very quickly through this process of

3253
02:03:38,170 --> 02:03:36,320
vitrification a very sudden heat source

3254
02:03:39,850 --> 02:03:38,180
that is produced which actually fuses

3255
02:03:42,310 --> 02:03:39,860
suddenly and then instantaneously cools

3256
02:03:44,380 --> 02:03:42,320
and fust preserves these stone walls

3257
02:03:44,899 --> 02:03:44,390
where they're no longer separate stones

3258
02:03:47,439 --> 02:03:44,909
it's actually

3259
02:03:50,299 --> 02:03:47,449
fused together almost concretions like

3260
02:03:52,939 --> 02:03:50,309
this vitrification process again would

3261
02:03:54,169 --> 02:03:52,949
have to present itself very rarely and

3262
02:03:56,330 --> 02:03:54,179
they would have to be something again

3263
02:03:57,739 --> 02:03:56,340
where there's a sudden massive source of

3264
02:03:59,810 --> 02:03:57,749
heat and then things cool relatively

3265
02:04:02,000 --> 02:03:59,820
quickly thereafter so evidences of

3266
02:04:03,649 --> 02:04:02,010
things like this as well as the what we

3267
02:04:05,149 --> 02:04:03,659
would colloquially call the Alamogordo

3268
02:04:07,399 --> 02:04:05,159
glass that you're talking about you know

3269
02:04:09,229 --> 02:04:07,409
that's the remnant of an impact you know

3270
02:04:11,359 --> 02:04:09,239
the the where the sand is fused and

3271
02:04:13,969 --> 02:04:11,369
there's natural glass formed all these

3272
02:04:15,469 --> 02:04:13,979
kind of things definitely are evidence

3273
02:04:16,939 --> 02:04:15,479
of impacts and events that have occurred

3274
02:04:18,319 --> 02:04:16,949
in the ancient past the problem is is I

3275
02:04:21,109 --> 02:04:18,329
think that some people again they say

3276
02:04:23,149 --> 02:04:21,119
hey look therefore they're the reason

3277
02:04:24,409 --> 02:04:23,159
it's called Alamogordo glass of course

3278
02:04:26,149 --> 02:04:24,419
you know the tests with the nuclear

3279
02:04:28,069 --> 02:04:26,159
weapons done at Alamogordo we find it

3280
02:04:29,689 --> 02:04:28,079
there but that doesn't mean that where

3281
02:04:31,729 --> 02:04:29,699
it else it's appeared in the world and

3282
02:04:34,310 --> 02:04:31,739
where else it stems from in the ancient

3283
02:04:36,469 --> 02:04:34,320
world that these were equally evidential

3284
02:04:38,419 --> 02:04:36,479
of nuclear weapons that were used I say

3285
02:04:40,729 --> 02:04:38,429
again nuclear scale events but not

3286
02:04:44,029 --> 02:04:40,739
evidence of nuclear weapons that the

3287
02:04:47,169 --> 02:04:44,039
ancients harnessed then raises the big

3288
02:04:50,449 --> 02:04:47,179
question here do you feel there were

3289
02:04:52,520 --> 02:04:50,459
advanced beings around here a couple of

3290
02:04:55,000 --> 02:04:52,530
thousand years ago interacting with us

3291
02:04:57,409 --> 02:04:55,010
or maybe the remnants again of an

3292
02:04:58,250 --> 02:04:57,419
Atlantean civilization or something that

3293
02:05:00,049 --> 02:04:58,260
preceded that

3294
02:05:02,000 --> 02:05:00,059
what's your feeling this is a really

3295
02:05:03,859 --> 02:05:02,010
interesting subject because with the

3296
02:05:05,540 --> 02:05:03,869
first half it's not show we've looked at

3297
02:05:06,649 --> 02:05:05,550
UFOs what's the best evidence is there

3298
02:05:08,089 --> 02:05:06,659
anything is there any evidence of

3299
02:05:10,159 --> 02:05:08,099
extraterrestrials visiting earth right

3300
02:05:13,009 --> 02:05:10,169
now I asked an astronomer the same

3301
02:05:14,839 --> 02:05:13,019
question a while back and he said and

3302
02:05:17,540 --> 02:05:14,849
he's a very skeptical guy he said to me

3303
02:05:20,330 --> 02:05:17,550
I don't see in UFO reports any evidence

3304
02:05:22,580 --> 02:05:20,340
of extraterrestrials visiting earth not

3305
02:05:26,270 --> 02:05:22,590
in modern times now he says you got to

3306
02:05:27,319 --> 02:05:26,280
look at the entire history of the planet

3307
02:05:28,879 --> 02:05:27,329
Earth as we know it

3308
02:05:30,469 --> 02:05:28,889
the very short amount of time that

3309
02:05:34,219 --> 02:05:30,479
humans have occupied this planet and he

3310
02:05:38,149 --> 02:05:34,229
said in that incredible period preceding

3311
02:05:40,429 --> 02:05:38,159
Earth that humans have now occupied

3312
02:05:42,409 --> 02:05:40,439
prior to our arrival here on this

3313
02:05:44,299 --> 02:05:42,419
mudball he says there was a lot of time

3314
02:05:47,179 --> 02:05:44,309
that passed and before that there was a

3315
02:05:49,370 --> 02:05:47,189
lot more time in terms of the actual

3316
02:05:50,270 --> 02:05:49,380
history of our universe so first we

3317
02:05:52,040 --> 02:05:50,280
could say that in the entire history

3318
02:05:55,459 --> 02:05:52,050
thirteen point five billion years or so

3319
02:05:56,469 --> 02:05:55,469
of our universe in likelihood there

3320
02:05:59,080 --> 02:05:56,479
probably have been intelligent

3321
02:06:01,010 --> 02:05:59,090
civilizations like us perhaps more

3322
02:06:02,780 --> 02:06:01,020
technologically advanced than us that

3323
02:06:05,240 --> 02:06:02,790
have come and perhaps also have gone and

3324
02:06:07,490 --> 02:06:05,250
that in the ancient past long before

3325
02:06:09,680 --> 02:06:07,500
humans appeared here on this planet if

3326
02:06:11,540 --> 02:06:09,690
we have been visited at any point it's

3327
02:06:14,750 --> 02:06:11,550
more likely that is it has occurred in

3328
02:06:16,250 --> 02:06:14,760
the past then it is that is occurring

3329
02:06:17,750 --> 02:06:16,260
today now some would say that hey

3330
02:06:19,010 --> 02:06:17,760
there's no distinction to be made the

3331
02:06:20,720 --> 02:06:19,020
aliens were here in the past they

3332
02:06:22,670 --> 02:06:20,730
interacted with the ancients and the

3333
02:06:25,160 --> 02:06:22,680
UFOs are a continuation of that today

3334
02:06:27,770 --> 02:06:25,170
those are very speculative points to be

3335
02:06:29,090 --> 02:06:27,780
made and again I'm pretty skeptical of

3336
02:06:30,710 --> 02:06:29,100
them although for all we know that could

3337
02:06:32,300 --> 02:06:30,720
be the reality behind it I don't know

3338
02:06:34,400 --> 02:06:32,310
that I would say it's completely

3339
02:06:36,440 --> 02:06:34,410
unlikely I would just say that we don't

3340
02:06:37,700 --> 02:06:36,450
necessarily need that interpretation to

3341
02:06:40,400 --> 02:06:37,710
explain the mysteries of the ancient

3342
02:06:42,500 --> 02:06:40,410
past or the presence of apparently

3343
02:06:44,450 --> 02:06:42,510
unidentified aircraft in our skies today

3344
02:06:46,400 --> 02:06:44,460
but that is one interpretation of these

3345
02:06:47,720 --> 02:06:46,410
things what I will say though is that

3346
02:06:49,910 --> 02:06:47,730
again when you look at the academic

3347
02:06:52,160 --> 02:06:49,920
aspects or the or the attitudes toward

3348
02:06:53,540 --> 02:06:52,170
this many of them would say yeah maybe

3349
02:06:55,520 --> 02:06:53,550
actually the likelihood that we were

3350
02:06:57,530 --> 02:06:55,530
visited that this planet has been met by

3351
02:06:59,300 --> 02:06:57,540
intelligent spacefaring civilizations

3352
02:07:00,860 --> 02:06:59,310
and that it occurred long ago is more

3353
02:07:03,620 --> 02:07:00,870
likely than what might be going on today

3354
02:07:05,780 --> 02:07:03,630
that people recognize his UFOs Carl

3355
02:07:08,090 --> 02:07:05,790
Sagan before the publication of Chariots

3356
02:07:10,520 --> 02:07:08,100
of the Gods by Erich von Daniken had put

3357
02:07:12,380 --> 02:07:10,530
forth what he called paleo contact and

3358
02:07:14,810 --> 02:07:12,390
he had been an advocate of that idea I

3359
02:07:17,480 --> 02:07:14,820
shouldn't name my sources right now but

3360
02:07:19,670 --> 02:07:17,490
I have two friends in the fringe

3361
02:07:21,470 --> 02:07:19,680
community one who met and knew Sagan

3362
02:07:23,660 --> 02:07:21,480
very well and another who spoke with his

3363
02:07:26,240 --> 02:07:23,670
biographer and basically what they've

3364
02:07:28,880 --> 02:07:26,250
told me is that Sagan privately did

3365
02:07:30,920 --> 02:07:28,890
maintain quite an interest both in UFOs

3366
02:07:32,300 --> 02:07:30,930
and also in the idea of paleo contact

3367
02:07:33,860 --> 02:07:32,310
but let's be clear I don't think he was

3368
02:07:35,390 --> 02:07:33,870
sitting around reading Church the gods

3369
02:07:38,030 --> 02:07:35,400
and saying yeah I think you know Eric's

3370
02:07:40,220 --> 02:07:38,040
right but I think that he had had that

3371
02:07:42,950 --> 02:07:40,230
prior to the publication of Chariots the

3372
02:07:44,750 --> 02:07:42,960
gods he had had a similar idea of paleo

3373
02:07:47,000 --> 02:07:44,760
contact and what might have happened in

3374
02:07:48,470 --> 02:07:47,010
the ancient past on this planet and I

3375
02:07:51,200 --> 02:07:48,480
think that he maintained an interest in

3376
02:07:52,580 --> 02:07:51,210
that which he largely kept out of the

3377
02:07:55,040 --> 02:07:52,590
dialogue that occurred in his academic

3378
02:07:56,990 --> 02:07:55,050
circles in his public presentations on

3379
02:07:58,430 --> 02:07:57,000
these subjects his biographer seems to

3380
02:08:00,260 --> 02:07:58,440
indicate that maybe that was the case

3381
02:08:02,720 --> 02:08:00,270
and again I've got a friend who's a

3382
02:08:04,190 --> 02:08:02,730
well-known ufologist who knew Sagan and

3383
02:08:06,230 --> 02:08:04,200
that's probably already given away too

3384
02:08:07,700 --> 02:08:06,240
much who said yeah you know we had very

3385
02:08:08,750 --> 02:08:07,710
frank conversations and he said you know

3386
02:08:10,040 --> 02:08:08,760
I could never go public with it but

3387
02:08:12,050 --> 02:08:10,050
obviously I'm interested in this subject

3388
02:08:12,710 --> 02:08:12,060
so you might apply that to a lot of

3389
02:08:15,230 --> 02:08:12,720
people active

3390
02:08:16,880 --> 02:08:15,240
missions scientists astrobiologists you

3391
02:08:18,200 --> 02:08:16,890
know astronomers they're probably a lot

3392
02:08:20,810 --> 02:08:18,210
more people interested in these things

3393
02:08:22,010 --> 02:08:20,820
than they actually let on and those who

3394
02:08:23,630 --> 02:08:22,020
are interested probably have the same

3395
02:08:26,120 --> 02:08:23,640
questions was Earth visited in the

3396
02:08:27,620 --> 02:08:26,130
ancient past as a pure matter of likely

3397
02:08:29,720 --> 02:08:27,630
that whether or not it happened it is

3398
02:08:31,370 --> 02:08:29,730
more likely and I maintain that view to

3399
02:08:32,750 --> 02:08:31,380
it is more likely that there may have

3400
02:08:34,220 --> 02:08:32,760
been spacefaring intelligent

3401
02:08:35,630 --> 02:08:34,230
civilizations that came to this planet

3402
02:08:39,440 --> 02:08:35,640
long before we ever arrived to ourselves

3403
02:08:42,230 --> 02:08:39,450
the question is if they came here are

3404
02:08:45,500 --> 02:08:42,240
they still here or did they come and go

3405
02:08:47,480 --> 02:08:45,510
okay that's the perimeter of Earthlings

3406
02:08:49,760 --> 02:08:47,490
let's go on with our business and that

3407
02:08:52,430 --> 02:08:49,770
raises the large question well UFOs is

3408
02:08:54,500 --> 02:08:52,440
it possible we were once visited maybe

3409
02:08:56,930 --> 02:08:54,510
even very recently and they're gone

3410
02:08:59,960 --> 02:08:56,940
everything that we've seen since then is

3411
02:09:03,800 --> 02:08:59,970
conventionally explained well in the

3412
02:09:06,050 --> 02:09:03,810
case of Oh on is the fish kind of

3413
02:09:07,420 --> 02:09:06,060
humanoid fish like being I doubt that he

3414
02:09:09,680 --> 02:09:07,430
would be able to sneak around here

3415
02:09:11,780 --> 02:09:09,690
effectively without freaking a lot of

3416
02:09:14,900 --> 02:09:11,790
people out because he kind of looked

3417
02:09:16,670 --> 02:09:14,910
like a fish Chris that's such a great

3418
02:09:18,200 --> 02:09:16,680
story you know again when I was a

3419
02:09:19,580 --> 02:09:18,210
teenager and I was really getting into

3420
02:09:21,500 --> 02:09:19,590
all this stuff the idea of the Anees

3421
02:09:22,910 --> 02:09:21,510
coming out and the way that they said

3422
02:09:24,440 --> 02:09:22,920
they would appear coming out of the sea

3423
02:09:25,190 --> 02:09:24,450
at the beginning of the day and they

3424
02:09:26,900 --> 02:09:25,200
would come and they would teach

3425
02:09:28,580 --> 02:09:26,910
architecture mathematics

3426
02:09:30,680 --> 02:09:28,590
you know agriculture is all the ancient

3427
02:09:32,480 --> 02:09:30,690
people then at the end of the day they

3428
02:09:33,920 --> 02:09:32,490
would take remember that the line that

3429
02:09:35,900 --> 02:09:33,930
always struck me they would take no food

3430
02:09:37,670 --> 02:09:35,910
in that season which we might interpret

3431
02:09:39,470 --> 02:09:37,680
to mean that when offered food they

3432
02:09:40,700 --> 02:09:39,480
wouldn't accept it and then at the end

3433
02:09:42,950 --> 02:09:40,710
of the day they would go back into the

3434
02:09:44,960 --> 02:09:42,960
ocean and I imagine this bulking kind of

3435
02:09:45,950 --> 02:09:44,970
spacesuit like thing waddling off almost

3436
02:09:49,490 --> 02:09:45,960
like you remember the film The Fifth

3437
02:09:52,190 --> 02:09:49,500
Element well do I remember that film you

3438
02:09:55,640 --> 02:09:52,200
know you just remember Melia jo Javitch

3439
02:09:58,520 --> 02:09:55,650
in that film we all do know I remember

3440
02:10:00,950 --> 02:09:58,530
the opera singer that was a great part

3441
02:10:02,120 --> 02:10:00,960
oh my god yeah the whole film is great

3442
02:10:03,890 --> 02:10:02,130
but you remember at the beginning when

3443
02:10:05,540 --> 02:10:03,900
those the clunky spacesuits that the

3444
02:10:07,550 --> 02:10:05,550
aliens wore when they go to the pyramids

3445
02:10:09,320 --> 02:10:07,560
I imagine the Hawaiians looking

3446
02:10:10,490 --> 02:10:09,330
something like that and coming out of

3447
02:10:12,350 --> 02:10:10,500
the ocean in the day and then going back

3448
02:10:15,310 --> 02:10:12,360
at night and you know I'll tell you what

3449
02:10:18,890 --> 02:10:15,320
let's go back to the Fifth Element

3450
02:10:27,610 --> 02:10:18,900
with Jean and Chris and Myka you're in

3451
02:10:38,000 --> 02:10:31,580
you are listening to GCN

3452
02:10:41,060 --> 02:10:38,010
visit GCN live.com today maybe not today

3453
02:10:43,970 --> 02:10:41,070
maybe not tomorrow but soon you'll need

3454
02:10:45,620 --> 02:10:43,980
a plan and place to survive forget

3455
02:10:48,350 --> 02:10:45,630
bunkers you're not a live underground

3456
02:10:50,180 --> 02:10:48,360
Cofer you need survivalist camps the

3457
02:10:52,370 --> 02:10:50,190
ultimate fully functional off-the-grid

3458
02:10:54,410 --> 02:10:52,380
mobile survival bug outhouse that's well

3459
02:10:57,230 --> 02:10:54,420
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3460
02:11:00,530 --> 02:10:57,240
other RV or trailer fold statement you

3461
02:11:03,050 --> 02:11:00,540
bet seem now at survivalist camps calm

3462
02:11:05,300 --> 02:11:03,060
that's survivalist camp's calm trust

3463
02:11:10,540 --> 02:11:05,310
your family survival - survivalist camps

3464
02:11:13,520 --> 02:11:10,550
calm want revenge on the common housefly

3465
02:11:15,500 --> 02:11:13,530
well after 10,000 years someone has

3466
02:11:18,650 --> 02:11:15,510
finally come up with a better way the

3467
02:11:20,690 --> 02:11:18,660
bug assault a miniaturized shotgun which

3468
02:11:22,970 --> 02:11:20,700
utilizes ordinary table salt as

3469
02:11:25,520 --> 02:11:22,980
ammunition non-toxic and no batteries

3470
02:11:28,430 --> 02:11:25,530
required 39.95 plus shipping and

3471
02:11:30,410 --> 02:11:28,440
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that's Gober Keep Calm today hello this

3556
02:14:45,040 --> 02:14:42,679
is John burrows one of the witnesses

3557
02:14:46,959 --> 02:14:45,050
to the Rendlesham UFO incident you're

3558
02:14:56,400 --> 02:14:46,969
listening to the podcast the gold

3559
02:15:02,910 --> 02:14:59,590
all right the fifth element

3560
02:15:06,850 --> 02:15:02,920
I think that's possibly one of the best

3561
02:15:09,010 --> 02:15:06,860
science fiction films ever made because

3562
02:15:10,720 --> 02:15:09,020
there's one thing about it that you

3563
02:15:15,130 --> 02:15:10,730
don't see in Star Trek and other films

3564
02:15:18,370 --> 02:15:15,140
that the cities the atmosphere was very

3565
02:15:21,160 --> 02:15:18,380
gritty and very realistic and a lot of

3566
02:15:25,060 --> 02:15:21,170
sci-fi films don't do that they don't

3567
02:15:27,130 --> 02:15:25,070
show the underbelly of a city blade it's

3568
02:15:27,790 --> 02:15:27,140
one of the few exams for the sequel oh

3569
02:15:30,340 --> 02:15:27,800
gosh

3570
02:15:31,600 --> 02:15:30,350
tell me about it I'll definitely be

3571
02:15:34,300 --> 02:15:31,610
going to the big screen on that

3572
02:15:37,209 --> 02:15:34,310
any-any Ridley Scott film basically is

3573
02:15:39,010 --> 02:15:37,219
worthy of a big-screen treatment I think

3574
02:15:40,840 --> 02:15:39,020
at least oh yeah okay into the pop

3575
02:15:42,940 --> 02:15:40,850
culture here well I've just got to say -

3576
02:15:46,060 --> 02:15:42,950
you know we just wrapped up that ancient

3577
02:15:47,860 --> 02:15:46,070
mysteries cruise and I disembarked on

3578
02:15:50,020 --> 02:15:47,870
Sunday morning I have my friend Anna

3579
02:15:51,970 --> 02:15:50,030
from Puerto Rico with me and then Roman

3580
02:15:54,040 --> 02:15:51,980
Zurcher and his lovely wife Corolla and

3581
02:15:55,840 --> 02:15:54,050
we went up to Madison Square Garden and

3582
02:15:57,400 --> 02:15:55,850
sat there and it was probably too early

3583
02:15:58,959 --> 02:15:57,410
in the day to do this but hey When in

3584
02:16:00,520 --> 02:15:58,969
Rome and New York counts too

3585
02:16:02,800 --> 02:16:00,530
New York has some of the most liberal

3586
02:16:04,390 --> 02:16:02,810
alcohol laws in the country so it was

3587
02:16:05,740 --> 02:16:04,400
the morning we waited until they opened

3588
02:16:07,090 --> 02:16:05,750
it was 11:00 a.m. I think on the nose

3589
02:16:08,470 --> 02:16:07,100
that they opened up the little market

3590
02:16:11,260 --> 02:16:08,480
there at Madison Square and we went in

3591
02:16:13,690 --> 02:16:11,270
there and I got a Guinness baby I okay

3592
02:16:16,090 --> 02:16:13,700
I survived on the Atlantic for seven

3593
02:16:17,860 --> 02:16:16,100
days with Jose Hurricane Jose dancing

3594
02:16:19,060 --> 02:16:17,870
circles around us I deserve to Guinness

3595
02:16:22,270 --> 02:16:19,070
at that point so we're sitting there but

3596
02:16:24,280 --> 02:16:22,280
the huge I mean that massive screen

3597
02:16:25,750 --> 02:16:24,290
across the street with the wheel board

3598
02:16:30,490 --> 02:16:25,760
way with with advertisement something

3599
02:16:31,900 --> 02:16:30,500
they have the yeah exactly and right

3600
02:16:33,610 --> 02:16:31,910
there on the big billboard you know they

3601
02:16:35,890 --> 02:16:33,620
had Harrison Ford and Ryan Gosling with

3602
02:16:37,750 --> 02:16:35,900
Blade Runner oh my gosh this film I hope

3603
02:16:40,600 --> 02:16:37,760
it look I hope the actual film is as

3604
02:16:42,339 --> 02:16:40,610
good as the trailers and the imagery

3605
02:16:43,719 --> 02:16:42,349
that they're using to promote it makes

3606
02:16:45,520 --> 02:16:43,729
it out to be because the first Blade

3607
02:16:46,919 --> 02:16:45,530
Runner is arguably my favorite science

3608
02:16:50,799 --> 02:16:46,929
fiction film of all time

3609
02:16:52,390 --> 02:16:50,809
maybe maybe that place is shared only by

3610
02:16:55,030 --> 02:16:52,400
the Fifth Element those two really I

3611
02:16:57,129 --> 02:16:55,040
think are among my very favorites yeah

3612
02:16:59,230 --> 02:16:57,139
and then if you want to get into social

3613
02:17:02,919 --> 02:16:59,240
commentary Clockwork Orange is pretty

3614
02:17:05,620 --> 02:17:02,929
darn good oh yeah yeah original Star War

3615
02:17:07,719 --> 02:17:05,630
is the opening shot of the Millennium

3616
02:17:08,620 --> 02:17:07,729
Falcon being chased by the by the star

3617
02:17:10,990 --> 02:17:08,630
cruiser that's

3618
02:17:13,450 --> 02:17:11,000
I remember that really set me back in my

3619
02:17:16,120 --> 02:17:13,460
chair when I saw that I just said boy

3620
02:17:19,860 --> 02:17:16,130
Paulie was just you know ratcheted up to

3621
02:17:21,490 --> 02:17:19,870
a new level and look where we are today

3622
02:17:24,100 --> 02:17:21,500
yeah exactly

3623
02:17:26,200 --> 02:17:24,110
that looks trite and kind of quaint you

3624
02:17:27,820 --> 02:17:26,210
know well the thing is interesting was

3625
02:17:30,759 --> 02:17:27,830
they were able to make that film for

3626
02:17:33,209 --> 02:17:30,769
just a few million dollars and today to

3627
02:17:35,650 --> 02:17:33,219
do a similar film would cost 250 million

3628
02:17:37,690 --> 02:17:35,660
so talk about efficiency if you don't

3629
02:17:39,910 --> 02:17:37,700
have the budget and you have smart

3630
02:17:42,129 --> 02:17:39,920
people that figure out a way well that's

3631
02:17:43,540 --> 02:17:42,139
why that's why Hollywood so gun-shy is

3632
02:17:45,820 --> 02:17:43,550
because they have to either go over the

3633
02:17:47,169 --> 02:17:45,830
top or try to reboot something that they

3634
02:17:49,089 --> 02:17:47,179
know has worked in the past and just

3635
02:17:52,060 --> 02:17:49,099
hope you know that it won't work in the

3636
02:17:54,009 --> 02:17:52,070
in the future that's why any you know

3637
02:17:56,169 --> 02:17:54,019
aspiring screenwriters and stuff really

3638
02:17:59,169 --> 02:17:56,179
the the place to go is cable you know go

3639
02:18:02,310 --> 02:17:59,179
to Netflix go to Amazon go to HBO that's

3640
02:18:05,049 --> 02:18:02,320
where the real cool projects are now

3641
02:18:09,070 --> 02:18:05,059
that would get some Saudi prince or some

3642
02:18:12,879 --> 02:18:09,080
Hong Kong shipping magnate to be able to

3643
02:18:14,169 --> 02:18:12,889
go ahead and fund your project hey see

3644
02:18:16,360 --> 02:18:14,179
now you just gotta find one of those

3645
02:18:23,679 --> 02:18:16,370
guys to fund your UFO project out there

3646
02:18:25,690 --> 02:18:23,689
in the San Luis Valley huh I'm ready to

3647
02:18:28,240 --> 02:18:25,700
go we've got this thing dialed in man

3648
02:18:31,990 --> 02:18:28,250
you know in terms of its you know the

3649
02:18:34,330 --> 02:18:32,000
the ideal equipment list the ideal

3650
02:18:36,160 --> 02:18:34,340
placement of love equipment that sort of

3651
02:18:37,870 --> 02:18:36,170
thing it's just a matter of you know

3652
02:18:39,339 --> 02:18:37,880
having a budget so you know people are

3653
02:18:41,259 --> 02:18:39,349
hired to do things instead of you know

3654
02:18:42,969 --> 02:18:41,269
having to rely on their good graces it's

3655
02:18:44,709 --> 02:18:42,979
almost impossible to really accomplish

3656
02:18:46,780 --> 02:18:44,719
anything when you're when you're doing

3657
02:18:49,839 --> 02:18:46,790
it on the people gifting their time

3658
02:18:51,070 --> 02:18:49,849
angle it just doesn't work doing it on

3659
02:18:52,959 --> 02:18:51,080
the cheap yeah what you know and I'll

3660
02:18:55,410 --> 02:18:52,969
tell you this too I got just the guy

3661
02:18:57,400 --> 02:18:55,420
let's let's call up Tom DeLonge okay

3662
02:18:59,169 --> 02:18:57,410
because with all the money that he's

3663
02:19:01,330 --> 02:18:59,179
making off of promoting his UFO

3664
02:19:03,669 --> 02:19:01,340
interests if you really wants to

3665
02:19:05,620 --> 02:19:03,679
convince people it's evident already

3666
02:19:07,270 --> 02:19:05,630
based on this conversation that hearing

3667
02:19:08,980 --> 02:19:07,280
it from government officials who cannot

3668
02:19:10,839 --> 02:19:08,990
be named even if WikiLeaks helps us know

3669
02:19:12,520 --> 02:19:10,849
who some of them are that alone has not

3670
02:19:14,259 --> 02:19:12,530
convinced this and probably will not for

3671
02:19:16,540 --> 02:19:14,269
some time to come so if you really wants

3672
02:19:18,820 --> 02:19:16,550
to get the point across fund the efforts

3673
02:19:20,039 --> 02:19:18,830
of civilian UFO researchers put that

3674
02:19:22,049 --> 02:19:20,049
money into science

3675
02:19:23,969 --> 02:19:22,059
let us prove with science that there is

3676
02:19:25,559 --> 02:19:23,979
a physical tangible phenomena worthy of

3677
02:19:28,709 --> 02:19:25,569
further study that's the only way that

3678
02:19:29,249 --> 02:19:28,719
you really absolutely I couldn't agree

3679
02:19:31,949 --> 02:19:29,259
more

3680
02:19:33,809 --> 02:19:31,959
I mean people like for instance I mean

3681
02:19:37,709 --> 02:19:33,819
we could go down the list Dave Grohl a

3682
02:19:40,229 --> 02:19:37,719
huge UFO closet UFO buff I mean he named

3683
02:19:42,029 --> 02:19:40,239
his band the Foo Fighters hello Justin

3684
02:19:43,649 --> 02:19:42,039
Heywood from the Moody Blues wrote me a

3685
02:19:45,719 --> 02:19:43,659
letter telling me how much he enjoyed

3686
02:19:47,669 --> 02:19:45,729
the book you know you could go down the

3687
02:19:50,179 --> 02:19:47,679
list there's a bunch of people that are

3688
02:19:52,739 --> 02:19:50,189
really interested in these subjects and

3689
02:19:55,889 --> 02:19:52,749
you know laurance rockefeller I mean you

3690
02:19:57,840 --> 02:19:55,899
know oh yeah god bless him I feel myself

3691
02:19:59,880 --> 02:19:57,850
blessed to be one of five people that he

3692
02:20:02,279 --> 02:19:59,890
you know funded five individuals that he

3693
02:20:04,529 --> 02:20:02,289
funded in the in the field so they're

3694
02:20:06,630 --> 02:20:04,539
out there but you know I've been hoping

3695
02:20:08,670 --> 02:20:06,640
to get that one camera up there and at

3696
02:20:11,010 --> 02:20:08,680
least demonstrate the viability of the

3697
02:20:12,569 --> 02:20:11,020
idea I mean have something where you can

3698
02:20:14,909 --> 02:20:12,579
say oh well you want to see what we're

3699
02:20:18,029 --> 02:20:14,919
doing here write this address down you

3700
02:20:20,279 --> 02:20:18,039
know click on this link you know that

3701
02:20:21,749 --> 02:20:20,289
sort of thing and until I get to that

3702
02:20:25,109 --> 02:20:21,759
point I've been really reluctant you

3703
02:20:27,719 --> 02:20:25,119
know to give some sort of you know huge

3704
02:20:30,389 --> 02:20:27,729
amount of energy to a funding project

3705
02:20:32,699 --> 02:20:30,399
because I think it's the only way to

3706
02:20:34,649 --> 02:20:32,709
really succeed is to have something have

3707
02:20:37,050 --> 02:20:34,659
success and then you know piggyback

3708
02:20:39,119 --> 02:20:37,060
further success on top of that success

3709
02:20:42,090 --> 02:20:39,129
so you know that's kind of where we want

3710
02:20:43,349 --> 02:20:42,100
to be I think which is really Chris

3711
02:20:45,569 --> 02:20:43,359
that's why the classic model always

3712
02:20:47,340 --> 02:20:45,579
involves getting an investor so is Bob

3713
02:20:49,769 --> 02:20:47,350
Bigelow out of the game I mean last I

3714
02:20:52,739 --> 02:20:49,779
heard that guy was still single the

3715
02:20:54,449 --> 02:20:52,749
single well-heeled investors they their

3716
02:20:58,050 --> 02:20:54,459
basic attitude and we've turned down a

3717
02:20:59,670 --> 02:20:58,060
couple of their attitude is what a great

3718
02:21:01,559 --> 02:20:59,680
idea sure let me give you all this money

3719
02:21:02,909 --> 02:21:01,569
and then it's my profit from it yeah how

3720
02:21:04,619 --> 02:21:02,919
can we profit from it and it's mine

3721
02:21:07,109 --> 02:21:04,629
after I give you the money right well I

3722
02:21:09,539 --> 02:21:07,119
have ways to monetize the thing I just

3723
02:21:13,889 --> 02:21:09,549
don't want to give that sort of

3724
02:21:16,380 --> 02:21:13,899
information up and until you know until

3725
02:21:19,139 --> 02:21:16,390
we can show its viability I mean those

3726
02:21:21,559 --> 02:21:19,149
ways to monetize a screaming signal a

3727
02:21:24,449 --> 02:21:21,569
live real-time streaming signal

3728
02:21:26,699 --> 02:21:24,459
monitoring a hot spot area there's ways

3729
02:21:30,859 --> 02:21:26,709
to have you know particular sponsorship

3730
02:21:33,019 --> 02:21:30,869
you know presence on the on the screen

3731
02:21:39,569 --> 02:21:33,029
there's way

3732
02:21:42,179 --> 02:21:39,579
event is being brought to you by you

3733
02:21:43,769 --> 02:21:42,189
know Cox cable you know whatever I mean

3734
02:21:46,290 --> 02:21:43,779
there's there's ways to monetize this

3735
02:21:48,540 --> 02:21:46,300
thing there really is and you know we've

3736
02:21:51,029 --> 02:21:48,550
thought up a number of them very

3737
02:21:52,380 --> 02:21:51,039
creatively I might add but I'm not gonna

3738
02:21:55,800 --> 02:21:52,390
give all that away until I have

3739
02:22:00,090 --> 02:21:55,810
something up there to demonstrate the

3740
02:22:03,090 --> 02:22:00,100
viability of the idea you know so we

3741
02:22:05,250 --> 02:22:03,100
have to approach this thing multi you

3742
02:22:07,410 --> 02:22:05,260
know on a multi-level sort of approach

3743
02:22:08,519 --> 02:22:07,420
there's kind of no way around it really

3744
02:22:10,260 --> 02:22:08,529
yeah

3745
02:22:11,700 --> 02:22:10,270
and for those who would complain and

3746
02:22:13,319 --> 02:22:11,710
bicker and say well why didn't somebody

3747
02:22:16,590 --> 02:22:13,329
done this why didn't somebody done this

3748
02:22:20,069 --> 02:22:16,600
everybody call Chris O'Brien he'll

3749
02:22:21,990 --> 02:22:20,079
explain it to you oh boy will I I can

3750
02:22:25,349 --> 02:22:22,000
only feel for you man cause a catch-22

3751
02:22:27,719 --> 02:22:25,359
you know it's you know you got to be

3752
02:22:30,479 --> 02:22:27,729
able to gotta be able to demonstrate

3753
02:22:32,670 --> 02:22:30,489
viability but you can't attract money

3754
02:22:34,590 --> 02:22:32,680
until you are able to do that but in

3755
02:22:36,269 --> 02:22:34,600
order to demonstrate viability you need

3756
02:22:39,929 --> 02:22:36,279
money I mean we've been able to generate

3757
02:22:41,939 --> 02:22:39,939
you know we put at this point I think

3758
02:22:45,179 --> 02:22:41,949
five five to seven thousand dollars I

3759
02:22:46,710 --> 02:22:45,189
think has been put into the project so I

3760
02:22:48,300 --> 02:22:46,720
mean it's not like we haven't had any

3761
02:22:51,859 --> 02:22:48,310
money involved and it's all been done on

3762
02:22:55,590 --> 02:22:51,869
it on a complete well I guess

3763
02:22:58,410 --> 02:22:55,600
theoretically that is conceptually that

3764
02:23:00,840 --> 02:22:58,420
is a shoestring so we have at least had

3765
02:23:04,740 --> 02:23:00,850
a shoestring to work with but to me that

3766
02:23:08,130 --> 02:23:04,750
is a shoestring that money has gone into

3767
02:23:12,029 --> 02:23:08,140
developing the the detection recorder

3768
02:23:13,710 --> 02:23:12,039
motion and and and tracking software I

3769
02:23:15,569 --> 02:23:13,720
mean that's that's where we've spent the

3770
02:23:19,050 --> 02:23:15,579
money because we really needed that in

3771
02:23:20,279 --> 02:23:19,060
order to make the thing workable in you

3772
02:23:22,679 --> 02:23:20,289
know theoretically once we get the

3773
02:23:25,109 --> 02:23:22,689
cameras up we need to to be able to

3774
02:23:27,479 --> 02:23:25,119
identify events and then be able to

3775
02:23:29,969 --> 02:23:27,489
track them and record them because if we

3776
02:23:31,830 --> 02:23:29,979
don't record and it's always on record

3777
02:23:34,859 --> 02:23:31,840
who's gonna be going through the you

3778
02:23:37,649 --> 02:23:34,869
know trillions of bits of data to try to

3779
02:23:39,870 --> 02:23:37,659
identify events we need the software to

3780
02:23:41,670 --> 02:23:39,880
identify events so that we don't have to

3781
02:23:43,349 --> 02:23:41,680
sit there and then be going through

3782
02:23:46,559 --> 02:23:43,359
reams and reams and reams and reams of

3783
02:23:49,409 --> 02:23:46,569
video it's kind of

3784
02:23:51,989 --> 02:23:49,419
so you know it's a walk before you run

3785
02:23:53,449 --> 02:23:51,999
thing valet who we had on the show here

3786
02:23:55,799 --> 02:23:53,459
a month ago

3787
02:23:58,709 --> 02:23:55,809
Jacques thinks it's a great idea and

3788
02:24:01,889 --> 02:23:58,719
he's pretty enthusiastic about it and

3789
02:24:03,839 --> 02:24:01,899
you know who knows maybe I'll get a an

3790
02:24:06,299 --> 02:24:03,849
email from somebody that said you know I

3791
02:24:08,549 --> 02:24:06,309
just got shocked filet mentioned that

3792
02:24:11,369 --> 02:24:08,559
you had a project and you know we'd love

3793
02:24:13,049 --> 02:24:11,379
to find out more and see it possibly is

3794
02:24:14,789 --> 02:24:13,059
there's a way to help you out we can

3795
02:24:16,979 --> 02:24:14,799
hope for miracles we can also hope to

3796
02:24:18,599 --> 02:24:16,989
have this break and then we'll have one

3797
02:24:29,760 --> 02:24:18,609
more segment with Micah Hanks and gene

3798
02:24:32,680 --> 02:24:29,770
and Chris you're in the para cast thank

3799
02:24:37,150 --> 02:24:32,690
you for listening to GCN

3800
02:24:39,400 --> 02:24:37,160
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3827
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so don't take your tax debt lightly

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3900
02:28:53,610 --> 02:28:47,830
of you up on the street and listening to

3901
02:28:56,280 --> 02:28:53,620
the podcast with Jean and Chris we're

3902
02:28:59,730 --> 02:28:56,290
talking about all sorts of subjects

3903
02:29:02,520 --> 02:28:59,740
about the state of the UFO field about

3904
02:29:06,320 --> 02:29:02,530
the possibility that many key cases are

3905
02:29:08,310 --> 02:29:06,330
not real is it all real or was it just

3906
02:29:11,040 --> 02:29:08,320
misidentification ancient astronauts

3907
02:29:13,650 --> 02:29:11,050
about Chris's San Luis Valley camera

3908
02:29:15,690 --> 02:29:13,660
project it seems to me Chris that the

3909
02:29:17,280 --> 02:29:15,700
more we look at this you have the only

3910
02:29:18,719 --> 02:29:17,290
project that seems to be going anywhere

3911
02:29:21,210 --> 02:29:18,729
we have other people who talk about

3912
02:29:23,760 --> 02:29:21,220
these things and they just sort of sits

3913
02:29:26,849 --> 02:29:23,770
you can't really assume anything when

3914
02:29:28,170 --> 02:29:26,859
you're talking about you photog you know

3915
02:29:30,690 --> 02:29:28,180
who knows what's going on behind the

3916
02:29:31,950 --> 02:29:30,700
scenes and you know Marc Dantonio and

3917
02:29:33,750 --> 02:29:31,960
Douglas Trumbull could be very very

3918
02:29:36,810 --> 02:29:33,760
close to the vest right now they might

3919
02:29:39,900 --> 02:29:36,820
be making him amazing strides I kind of

3920
02:29:42,179 --> 02:29:39,910
doubt it but you know with that kind of

3921
02:29:46,110 --> 02:29:42,189
clout in and you know trumble's

3922
02:29:47,940 --> 02:29:46,120
connections and you know his connection

3923
02:29:50,760 --> 02:29:47,950
to deep pockets shall we say I mean

3924
02:29:53,219 --> 02:29:50,770
that's always very important and you

3925
02:29:55,469 --> 02:29:53,229
know the lawrence livermore some

3926
02:29:58,139 --> 02:29:55,479
lawrence livermore scientists and other

3927
02:30:01,620 --> 02:29:58,149
things involved in that project you

3928
02:30:05,040 --> 02:30:01,630
never count him out Leslie Kean Marc

3929
02:30:06,690 --> 02:30:05,050
rodiger UFO data that project I don't

3930
02:30:08,910 --> 02:30:06,700
think really had a snowball's chance in

3931
02:30:11,219 --> 02:30:08,920
hell to be honest with you they really

3932
02:30:12,690 --> 02:30:11,229
don't know where to go what to do how to

3933
02:30:15,270 --> 02:30:12,700
do it who to talk to

3934
02:30:17,219 --> 02:30:15,280
I offered my help and they did not

3935
02:30:19,500 --> 02:30:17,229
follow up on that and I was more than

3936
02:30:21,570 --> 02:30:19,510
willing to you know supply them with

3937
02:30:25,080 --> 02:30:21,580
software I mean do everything I could to

3938
02:30:27,349 --> 02:30:25,090
help their project actually you know

3939
02:30:29,219 --> 02:30:27,359
become workable and become viable

3940
02:30:32,130 --> 02:30:29,229
anything I can do in

3941
02:30:34,139 --> 02:30:32,140
my process is totally open-source to

3942
02:30:36,719 --> 02:30:34,149
anybody else out there that wants to get

3943
02:30:39,899 --> 02:30:36,729
involved I am NOT trying to make this

3944
02:30:42,569 --> 02:30:39,909
into some sort of proprietary thing my

3945
02:30:45,179 --> 02:30:42,579
ego is not involved in this I'm not

3946
02:30:47,489 --> 02:30:45,189
looking at this from trying to you have

3947
02:30:49,559 --> 02:30:47,499
a monopoly on UFO data collection or

3948
02:30:52,260 --> 02:30:49,569
anything like that I want this to

3949
02:30:54,149 --> 02:30:52,270
snowball we want this to be open-source

3950
02:30:56,700 --> 02:30:54,159
we want to be able to tell people what

3951
02:30:58,439 --> 02:30:56,710
to what kind of gear to get how to set

3952
02:31:00,179 --> 02:30:58,449
it up here's the software to run it

3953
02:31:02,939 --> 02:31:00,189
here's the protocols that you should

3954
02:31:05,460 --> 02:31:02,949
have set in place to come up with the

3955
02:31:08,760 --> 02:31:05,470
most effective data gathering analysis

3956
02:31:10,649 --> 02:31:08,770
scenario that we can come up with and

3957
02:31:12,139 --> 02:31:10,659
help you with you know we're not the

3958
02:31:14,939 --> 02:31:12,149
Pentagon we're not the Department of

3959
02:31:17,819 --> 02:31:14,949
Defense we don't have you know invoices

3960
02:31:20,250 --> 02:31:17,829
for $30,000 screwdrivers or whatever but

3961
02:31:22,620 --> 02:31:20,260
if you really want to take this whole

3962
02:31:24,689 --> 02:31:22,630
thing to the next level and move it

3963
02:31:27,450 --> 02:31:24,699
forward this is how we think it should

3964
02:31:29,550 --> 02:31:27,460
be done you know this has been a well

3965
02:31:32,580 --> 02:31:29,560
now it's almost eleven year process so

3966
02:31:34,679 --> 02:31:32,590
you know we're learning by fits and

3967
02:31:37,019 --> 02:31:34,689
starts oftentimes it's three steps

3968
02:31:41,960 --> 02:31:37,029
forward four steps back but but we are

3969
02:31:44,700 --> 02:31:41,970
making progress believe it or not and

3970
02:31:46,410 --> 02:31:44,710
once we get that signal back up and

3971
02:31:48,719 --> 02:31:46,420
streaming remember we did have a camera

3972
02:31:52,260 --> 02:31:48,729
up for six months and we did gather some

3973
02:31:55,260 --> 02:31:52,270
pretty interesting data the footage of

3974
02:31:58,319 --> 02:31:55,270
the two-man helicopter optically turning

3975
02:32:01,410 --> 02:31:58,329
into a silver orb and flying shooting

3976
02:32:03,960 --> 02:32:01,420
across the screen was very compelling if

3977
02:32:06,239 --> 02:32:03,970
I had taken the two like seconds at the

3978
02:32:07,920 --> 02:32:06,249
very beginning of the of the sequence if

3979
02:32:10,410 --> 02:32:07,930
I had taken that first two seconds out

3980
02:32:12,269 --> 02:32:10,420
you didn't see the helicopter and you

3981
02:32:14,340 --> 02:32:12,279
just seen the silver orb from the light

3982
02:32:17,969 --> 02:32:14,350
you know refracting off the the Dome of

3983
02:32:20,189 --> 02:32:17,979
the of the canopy I could have touted

3984
02:32:22,590 --> 02:32:20,199
that as the the greatest daylight you

3985
02:32:24,569 --> 02:32:22,600
know footage since the introduction of

3986
02:32:26,069 --> 02:32:24,579
sourdough or something I don't know but

3987
02:32:29,250 --> 02:32:26,079
that's not what we're doing we're trying

3988
02:32:33,840 --> 02:32:29,260
to come up with ways to not only

3989
02:32:35,639 --> 02:32:33,850
identify and quantify and analyze real

3990
02:32:39,479 --> 02:32:35,649
events but we're also looking for ways

3991
02:32:42,430 --> 02:32:39,489
to debunk ourselves and and and show how

3992
02:32:45,400 --> 02:32:42,440
mundane events

3993
02:32:48,660 --> 02:32:45,410
can fool people and create false

3994
02:32:52,600 --> 02:32:48,670
positives create you know misidentified

3995
02:32:55,740 --> 02:32:52,610
identifications of events and so I think

3996
02:32:57,610 --> 02:32:55,750
it's really important that our effort is

3997
02:33:00,551 --> 02:32:57,620
possibly the building block of the

3998
02:33:01,830 --> 02:33:00,561
foundation for further efforts we'll do

3999
02:33:05,350 --> 02:33:01,840
everything that we can to help people

4000
02:33:06,700 --> 02:33:05,360
take the process to the next level you

4001
02:33:11,470 --> 02:33:06,710
know we're doing the best we can

4002
02:33:13,060 --> 02:33:11,480
and I'm really hoping that can my isp

4003
02:33:14,770 --> 02:33:13,070
guided me when that's gonna climb his

4004
02:33:16,660 --> 02:33:14,780
Tower and put that damn camera up here

4005
02:33:19,210 --> 02:33:16,670
in the next week or two because it's

4006
02:33:21,640 --> 02:33:19,220
getting cold up there at 7,500 feet so

4007
02:33:23,890 --> 02:33:21,650
we need that camera up and then we have

4008
02:33:27,370 --> 02:33:23,900
our other two locations scouted out and

4009
02:33:29,920 --> 02:33:27,380
eager volunteers already but you need

4010
02:33:32,020 --> 02:33:29,930
the initial camera you know I wish at

4011
02:33:34,180 --> 02:33:32,030
this point guys that I were Bruce Wayne

4012
02:33:36,131 --> 02:33:34,190
because if I were Bruce Wayne and then

4013
02:33:37,750 --> 02:33:36,141
just four particular artistic emphasis

4014
02:33:40,420 --> 02:33:37,760
I'm gonna say Christian Bale's Bruce

4015
02:33:42,220 --> 02:33:40,430
Wayne okay I would be sitting here and

4016
02:33:46,720 --> 02:33:42,230
go I'll be clapping first of all I'd say

4017
02:33:48,580 --> 02:33:46,730
that's a very imaginative and fun idea

4018
02:33:51,640 --> 02:33:48,590
you've got there Chris O'Brien and that

4019
02:33:53,801 --> 02:33:51,650
is why I'm gonna fund you because I'm

4020
02:33:56,261 --> 02:33:53,811
telling you truly I wish that that there

4021
02:33:58,150 --> 02:33:56,271
were people who who saw the importance

4022
02:33:59,620 --> 02:33:58,160
in ideas like that

4023
02:34:00,910 --> 02:33:59,630
and again you know I've been accused of

4024
02:34:03,011 --> 02:34:00,920
all your just trying to make money by

4025
02:34:04,420 --> 02:34:03,021
selling your books I've always said if I

4026
02:34:05,710 --> 02:34:04,430
were trying to make money doing this I

4027
02:34:06,881 --> 02:34:05,720
wouldn't be writing books about this

4028
02:34:08,591 --> 02:34:06,891
sort of thing I wouldn't be studying

4029
02:34:09,700 --> 02:34:08,601
archaeology I wouldn't be studying

4030
02:34:12,700 --> 02:34:09,710
ancient history and I wouldn't be

4031
02:34:15,160 --> 02:34:12,710
studying fringed topics like UFOs and

4032
02:34:17,170 --> 02:34:15,170
trying to squeak by and make a living

4033
02:34:18,250 --> 02:34:17,180
doing what I love you know so anybody

4034
02:34:20,080 --> 02:34:18,260
who says you just do this for the money

4035
02:34:21,850 --> 02:34:20,090
I'm sorry there are plenty of ways to

4036
02:34:23,650 --> 02:34:21,860
make lots of money but you know at the

4037
02:34:25,301 --> 02:34:23,660
same time I wish though that I did make

4038
02:34:26,560 --> 02:34:25,311
more money I would love to be rich

4039
02:34:28,240 --> 02:34:26,570
because not because I want to roll

4040
02:34:30,220 --> 02:34:28,250
around in my own dough you know and have

4041
02:34:32,700 --> 02:34:30,230
a bunch of cash on hand if I had that

4042
02:34:35,230 --> 02:34:32,710
kind of cash it would be funding bright

4043
02:34:37,870 --> 02:34:35,240
innovative individuals like you Chris I

4044
02:34:39,610 --> 02:34:37,880
would be funding you know networks for

4045
02:34:41,261 --> 02:34:39,620
podcasts like the pair I cast on my own

4046
02:34:42,580 --> 02:34:41,271
show the graylien report that would be

4047
02:34:44,200 --> 02:34:42,590
funding research I would be trying to

4048
02:34:46,210 --> 02:34:44,210
get to the bottom of this using science

4049
02:34:47,410 --> 02:34:46,220
and not just relying on he said this or

4050
02:34:48,820 --> 02:34:47,420
she said that or somebody from

4051
02:34:50,261 --> 02:34:48,830
wright-patterson Air Force Base might

4052
02:34:51,790 --> 02:34:50,271
come meet with politician and tell them

4053
02:34:53,170 --> 02:34:51,800
that we could get to the bottom of this

4054
02:34:54,730 --> 02:34:53,180
if we could put our resources together

4055
02:34:56,140 --> 02:34:54,740
and again if there were only enough

4056
02:34:58,030 --> 02:34:56,150
money to be able to spread it

4057
02:34:59,920 --> 02:34:58,040
if I had that kind of financial resource

4058
02:35:01,930 --> 02:34:59,930
you damn right I do it it's not that

4059
02:35:03,190 --> 02:35:01,940
much either I mean really when you're

4060
02:35:05,320 --> 02:35:03,200
looking at the amount of money that some

4061
02:35:07,540 --> 02:35:05,330
people on this planet are sitting on top

4062
02:35:09,551 --> 02:35:07,550
of they could have three generations of

4063
02:35:11,650 --> 02:35:09,561
offspring that could couldn't possibly

4064
02:35:13,600 --> 02:35:11,660
spend it in their lifetime so I mean

4065
02:35:15,400 --> 02:35:13,610
it's definitely there and it's people

4066
02:35:18,370 --> 02:35:15,410
like you Michael that that I find

4067
02:35:21,190 --> 02:35:18,380
intriguing because you have the ability

4068
02:35:23,380 --> 02:35:21,200
to analyze things and analyze subjects

4069
02:35:25,720 --> 02:35:23,390
and sort of coalesce them together and

4070
02:35:27,490 --> 02:35:25,730
see you know where things stick it's one

4071
02:35:28,841 --> 02:35:27,500
thing to come up with a lot of data it's

4072
02:35:30,761 --> 02:35:28,851
another thing to be able to analyze it

4073
02:35:33,370 --> 02:35:30,771
and so it's it's a multi-level process

4074
02:35:36,280 --> 02:35:33,380
that needs team players this is a team

4075
02:35:38,710 --> 02:35:36,290
effort this whole subject is not a bunch

4076
02:35:40,150 --> 02:35:38,720
of stove-piped individuals going out and

4077
02:35:41,680 --> 02:35:40,160
trying to solve the mysteries of the

4078
02:35:44,080 --> 02:35:41,690
universe we have to do this collectively

4079
02:35:46,480 --> 02:35:44,090
there's just no way that one person or

4080
02:35:48,551 --> 02:35:46,490
one effort is going to be standalone and

4081
02:35:50,200 --> 02:35:48,561
be able to do this we all have to work

4082
02:35:52,870 --> 02:35:50,210
together we all have to pull on the oar

4083
02:35:54,730 --> 02:35:52,880
in the same freakin direction and I've

4084
02:35:57,341 --> 02:35:54,740
been saying that until I've been blue in

4085
02:36:00,370 --> 02:35:57,351
the face and I'll continue saying it you

4086
02:36:02,140 --> 02:36:00,380
see Chris if your face turns blue we

4087
02:36:04,330 --> 02:36:02,150
could pawn you off as an alien creature

4088
02:36:07,750 --> 02:36:04,340
then make enough money to fund the

4089
02:36:09,220 --> 02:36:07,760
project yeah a blue avian yeah we could

4090
02:36:14,950 --> 02:36:09,230
get Jaime Masson to help us promote it

4091
02:36:17,980 --> 02:36:14,960
too I was thinking here as crazy as that

4092
02:36:20,490 --> 02:36:17,990
is is there anything too crazy for him

4093
02:36:22,870 --> 02:36:20,500
to promote I'm not so sure there is

4094
02:36:25,630 --> 02:36:22,880
don't get me started on that question

4095
02:36:29,380 --> 02:36:25,640
boy I could have some fun with that one

4096
02:36:31,390 --> 02:36:29,390
yeah no I'm this show Micah Hank's

4097
02:36:33,070 --> 02:36:31,400
please tell our listeners if they want

4098
02:36:36,040 --> 02:36:33,080
to know more of the things that you do

4099
02:36:39,910 --> 02:36:36,050
where do they go yeah please head over

4100
02:36:41,650 --> 02:36:39,920
to my website Micah Hank's Mich and

4101
02:36:43,780 --> 02:36:41,660
Hank's like the actor Tom Micah Hank's

4102
02:36:45,430 --> 02:36:43,790
calm all the information about my other

4103
02:36:46,750 --> 02:36:45,440
projects is available there but I'm

4104
02:36:49,720 --> 02:36:46,760
gonna tell you about a couple of them to

4105
02:36:52,690 --> 02:36:49,730
graylien report.com that's gr and the

4106
02:36:54,670 --> 02:36:52,700
word alien gr alien report graylien

4107
02:36:56,410 --> 02:36:54,680
people always ask me what does that mean

4108
02:36:58,870 --> 02:36:56,420
I liked it I combined a couple of words

4109
02:37:00,880 --> 02:36:58,880
like Grail and alien you know in that

4110
02:37:03,430 --> 02:37:00,890
way these days with the cost of web

4111
02:37:05,020 --> 02:37:03,440
domains and online properties it was

4112
02:37:06,520 --> 02:37:05,030
much easier to create a word than to try

4113
02:37:07,900 --> 02:37:06,530
and find one somebody wasn't charging a

4114
02:37:09,150 --> 02:37:07,910
million dollars for so greatly and

4115
02:37:11,070 --> 02:37:09,160
report.com is my

4116
02:37:13,080 --> 02:37:11,080
Podcast its weekly it's freely available

4117
02:37:13,950 --> 02:37:13,090
there is a subscriber thing but hey if

4118
02:37:15,511 --> 02:37:13,960
you're gonna support me

4119
02:37:18,000 --> 02:37:15,521
consider first subscribing to the para

4120
02:37:20,131 --> 02:37:18,010
cast plus that's my personal favorite

4121
02:37:22,620 --> 02:37:20,141
Plus Club yeah you guys can always

4122
02:37:23,940 --> 02:37:22,630
follow me on Twitter too at my - Hanks

4123
02:37:25,830 --> 02:37:23,950
I'm one of those rare individuals on

4124
02:37:27,841 --> 02:37:25,840
Twitter who has his own name so I'm easy

4125
02:37:30,390 --> 02:37:27,851
to find at Micah Hanks on Twitter at

4126
02:37:32,310 --> 02:37:30,400
Micah Hanks on Instagram and I look

4127
02:37:34,381 --> 02:37:32,320
forward to hearing from all you guys you

4128
02:37:36,290 --> 02:37:34,391
can find the power cast on Twitter where

4129
02:37:39,390 --> 02:37:36,300
we're known as the power cast at the

4130
02:37:41,730 --> 02:37:39,400
power cast look for gene Steinberg on

4131
02:37:43,710 --> 02:37:41,740
Facebook and a pair of official power

4132
02:37:46,770 --> 02:37:43,720
cast fan clubs we have a power cast

4133
02:37:48,570 --> 02:37:46,780
channel on YouTube check it out and we

4134
02:37:51,000 --> 02:37:48,580
also have the power cast plus which

4135
02:37:53,220 --> 02:37:51,010
Micah recommended and probably will turn

4136
02:37:55,051 --> 02:37:53,230
up occasionally on an episode to learn

4137
02:37:57,960 --> 02:37:55,061
more about the power cast plus go to +

4138
02:37:59,190 --> 02:37:57,970
stop our cast com that's plus thathe

4139
02:38:01,080 --> 02:37:59,200
power cast com

4140
02:38:03,360 --> 02:38:01,090
we give you the after the power cast

4141
02:38:04,620 --> 02:38:03,370
podcast it's one of those things where

4142
02:38:07,320 --> 02:38:04,630
you never know what's gonna happen next

4143
02:38:10,890 --> 02:38:07,330
like last week Paul Kimball revisiting

4144
02:38:13,980 --> 02:38:10,900
those best evidence UFO cases and coming

4145
02:38:16,620 --> 02:38:13,990
up with some new changed conclusions we

4146
02:38:19,261 --> 02:38:16,630
get the ad free version of this show

4147
02:38:22,020 --> 02:38:19,271
free of the network ads and lots more

4148
02:38:24,990 --> 02:38:22,030
stuff coming to learn more go to plus PL

4149
02:38:28,200 --> 02:38:25,000
us doctor power cast com+ stop the power

4150
02:38:30,841 --> 02:38:28,210
cast calm and check for new content all

4151
02:38:35,820 --> 02:38:30,851
the time right chris at our strange

4152
02:38:37,470 --> 02:38:35,830
planet calm our strange planet calm Mike

4153
02:38:41,040 --> 02:38:37,480
Hanks thanks for joining us on the pair

4154
02:38:53,179 --> 02:38:41,050
against always my pleasure guys

4155
02:38:59,729 --> 02:38:56,699
the para cast featuring gene Steinberg

4156
02:39:02,599 --> 02:38:59,739
and Christopher O'Brien is a copyrighted

4157
02:39:06,330 --> 02:39:02,609
presentation of making the impossible